Am I off my rocker?

[ErinH]

I've got (6) AE IB15's purchased last year BNIB from a member here. I had every intention on using them IB in my new home. However, now that we're nearing moving in next weekend, I'm starting to have a change of heart. My wife didn't quite understand what it meant to cut out wall space for these subs and when I showed her pictures of IB installs, I could see the look on her face (likely attributed to cutting a hole in a brand new wall). She didn't say anything, but ... I knew. Additionally, the fact that I have a daughter who isn't even 3 yet keeps the volume on any Daddy movies (the ones I watch when she's asleep) at mid-volume levels. There's just not need for a slew of subs like I once thought would be super cool to have.

Those reasons aside, I've also been considering the fact that it may just be overkill. The ol' notion of more is better, when reality indicates it's not entirely necessary. Therefore, I've been considering picking up (2) of the Dayton 15" Ultimax knockdown kits. With the 4th of July sale going on right now, I can get the pair under $500 shipped. Not bad. That decision needs to be made this weekend though.

Obviously the output, especially down low, won't be the same. I tried to model the difference in FR alone of one AE IB15 in IB (20+ cuft) vs one Ultimax 15 in the 3ft^3 enclosure but my bass box pro kept crashing. I'm not concerned about output in dB of (6) IB15's vs (2) Ultimax 15's as much as I am concerned with the response curve difference itself. If the two aren't terribly different, then my concern is mitigated. However, if the AE IB15 is 10dB higher at 20hz then that may be enough to keep me on hold a bit.

Any thoughts here? Selling the IB15's isn't something I'm trigger happy about but if I don't need them, that money can be better applied somewhere else in the budget.

- Erin

[jonasz]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

I think you should sell them to me!

Or build a killer dipole speaker.

[ErinH]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

nah, no dipole. I had initially wanted to do a THX baffle build but I'm shooting for realistic here. a regular HT setup. As I've grown, I've realized that being the cool kid on the internet with the fancy setup is a fleeting glory. simple is much more easy to execute and satisfies my needs much more. (not that the baffle wall build won't happen in the future) ;)

[Jay1]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

nah, no dipole. I had initially wanted to do a THX baffle build but I'm shooting for realistic here. a regular HT setup. As I've grown, I've realized that being the cool kid on the internet with the fancy setup is a fleeting glory. simple is much more easy to execute and satisfies my needs much more. (not that the baffle wall build won't happen in the future) ;)

Such a true statement, especially if you've spent any time over at AVS...

Depending on what your ULF expectations are, a pair of those UM15's should be more then capable.

[cjd]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

It's not about being loud or having tons of output capacity; if your room works out, nothing will get close to the quality you get out of a large IB array. You stop noticing it (bass, sub-bass) but it's there in an almost surreal way. Every so often, something happens and your head feels like it's about to implode... It doesn't intrude though. I think it's similar to what a higher efficiency low distortion system (pro drivers?) can achieve - effortless dynamics, clean execution, and something that threatens to overstretch your jaw muscles every single time you give it room to play. That, or your grinning muscles cramp up.

I'm always intrigued by the people who run into SAF issues with an IB - a big box or two and a whole lot more "boom" is preferable to a stealth install? Manifold mount and frame up a nice white grillcloth cover, you won't even know it's there. Patching walls is as easy as it gets. People don't notice mine (though it's on my front wall, which is sound treated with frames wrapped in black felt, so it's black grill cloth) unless I point it out. The cover is flush with the wall treatment. I've had one person surprised I didn't have a sub... till we watched some demo material. :D

Stack up those IB15 boxes in the room so it's clear just how much room an in-room small-box boomy sub will take.

I have 4 Tempest-X in a ~1600cu/ft theater room (that volume includes the stairs.) I rarely play it loud (usually ~80dB is loud for my wife) but the install is worth every penny. Sometimes I have to go downstairs, turn the lights off, and pop in some organ music - just zone out. It might push to 90dB then...

C

[greywarden]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

This is (2) 12" subs powered by a crown xls1500 (775W each) spl is NOT ACCURATE, but it's plenty loud enough.

[djarchow]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

I modeled both in Unibox. In 3 cubic feet sealed the UM15 will have an f3 of 29hz. With 400 watts it will put out 90 db at 10 hz, 103 db at 20 hz and 112db above 40 hz.

A single IB15 will have an f3 of 16 hz. However it will it it's excursion limits a lot sooner. With 100 watts it will hit it's excursion limits below 20 Hz and hit bout 104 db at 20 hz and 105 db above 25 hz. Two of the IB15 with 150 watts would be very close in output to the UM15 above 25 Hz with more output below.

[ErinH]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

holy image size, batman! ;)


There seems to be a pretty staunch divide on this topic, as I've read topics on the matter. My dream was always to go IB. I'm fully aware of the benefits. But the other side of me... the side that gauges value in terms of use ... is the side of me that says a simpler setup is fine.

Regarding WAF, mine seems to be cool with it. She understands it's what I've wanted to do for the past few years and knows that it means a lot for me to let a stack of subs sit untouched for a common goal of IB use in the new house. lol. I'm actually the one having second thoughts. Usually when you're torn on a topic, the first choice is the one you want the most.

[ErinH]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

I modeled both in Unibox. In 3 cubic feet sealed the UM15 will have an f3 of 29hz. With 400 watts it will put out 90 db at 10 hz, 103 db at 20 hz and 112db above 40 hz.

A single IB15 will have an f3 of 16 hz. However it will it it's excursion limits a lot sooner. With 100 watts it will hit it's excursion limits below 20 Hz and hit bout 104 db at 20 hz and 105 db above 25 hz. Two of the IB15 with 150 watts would be very close in output to the UM15 above 25 Hz with more output below.

Thanks for that info. Good solid numbers to go by.

FWIW, I already have a Behringer EP2500 I've been toting around a couple of years. Fan mod and all.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

What cjd says. You'll have a completely hidden install, and there's nothing that comes close to the visceral quality you'll get. I did a 4x15 AE IB woofer install for my sister and her husband. The installation is in the ceiling between joists with a box manifold, and a large air intake screen to cover the hole. You never even really notice it.

Go for your original plan. You and your wife won't regret it.

[SPLEclipse]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

Might be a little OT, but....

BB6 crashes for me when I try to add a window that requires input power, I put in whatever that number might be (in watts), and hit "enter" instead of clicking the "plot" button. I forget every damn time too.

On topic: Back when I bought my place I planned on using two 15"s in a horn in the crawlspace under the house (I've got ~300 ft^3 under the second bedroom/media room). After one call to the cops from the neighbors when I was watching a movie with my single Def Tech 10" those plans were quickly abandoned. New goal: Buy land. Lots of it. Build house. Screw neighbors.

[jonasz]

Re: Am I off my rocker?

Just go with the IB, you know you will regret it if you don't and will always wonder how it would have turned out. Thats what I would have done anyway.