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Digger 8 Sub Build

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  • engr_dave
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    This looks like a great little sub. I was considering a vented RSS210HF - like Paul Carmody's "Pony", but this looks interesting. The Infininty 860W and PR are about the same price as the 210HF. If I wanted to upgrade to the AE PR, can someone confirm that the 12-970 is the right one? And how much mass is required or is it correct "out of the box"?

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    I can tell you right now, this is not your grandpa's sub. It litteraly shakes stuff off the walls and will send my OS MTM flying during LFE moments in movies. In my 12X15 living room it is more then enough. And when I finishe the second one that is a mirrored copy I will shake the place aprt to the foundations I am sure.

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  • alphaiii
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by jsr View Post
    There's many good designs that will hit mid to low-30s very well and perform great with most any type of music. But I really wanted something that extended to low-20s (and with the right amp, be right at 20Hz F3) that didn't cost me an appendage or take up half my room. Hopefully you'll find it to your liking. If not, at least you didn't spend much on materials.
    You know I've always looked more for quality over quantity so to speak... and in my experience found sealed subs delivered better on that than the few ported and single PR subs I've owned... So somewhere along the way I got kind of hung up on sealed subs being the end all be all for sound quality. The nicest sub I've owned was the Emotiva Ultra 12, which sounded great in terms of taut bass, but was neutered below 30Hz by very aggressive HPF. So for movies, I'm sure I've missed out and just didn't know it.

    The truth is that I use my system more for movies than music, and it'd be nice to have the low end extension without a huge cabinet or alot of $$$ invested. I don't listen at very loud levels either, so huge output is just not needed for me. Maybe this build would fit the bill nicely. The small footprint is a plus too.

    Leave a comment:


  • jsr
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    There's many good designs that will hit mid to low-30s very well and perform great with most any type of music. But I really wanted something that extended to low-20s (and with the right amp, be right at 20Hz F3) that didn't cost me an appendage or take up half my room. Hopefully you'll find it to your liking. If not, at least you didn't spend much on materials.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by alphaiii View Post
    Thanks for the response..

    My original plan for a sub was the Dayton RSS265-HO in the 1 cu ft. knock down cab... but maybe I'll think about this option since I already have the JBL and Bash 300...
    You wont be sorry...

    :D

    Leave a comment:


  • alphaiii
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by jsr View Post
    I find the SQ to be fine, but will be honest that my use for them has been mainly HT with music use only at levels I'd estimate to be around 85-90dB (with occasional higher outputs). I've found subs that have lower extension reproduce the sub frequencies for the music I listen to with less effort. Essentially you're operating it more within its passband than one that's operating near its rolloff. It's very responsive, so I've liked how well it keeps up with fast paced music and think it does fine on musical passages that have subtle low notes with varying level (aka doesn't boom).

    Regarding power, we get overly caught up into the max numbers. Just because it is a 300W amp doesn't mean all 300W will be used. At the output levels (SPL) I'm listening to the sub, I don't think I'm using near the 300W of the amp. Just like a full range speaker...take a speaker that's 85dB sensitive at 1 meter. At 2 meters (somewhat typical listening distance), it's at 79dB at 1W. With a pair and only 2W, you have enough power for the typical listening levels (mid/high-80s). The rest of the amplifier capability is headroom. And the limits I modeled for the drivers are only Xmax, not Xmech. So those drivers may very well have much more mechanical excursion than their linear excursion indicates and may behave quite well when pushed a bit beyond Xmax. For me, I've not had issues with over-excursion or SQ in my uses.
    Thanks for the response..

    My original plan for a sub was the Dayton RSS265-HO in the 1 cu ft. knock down cab... but maybe I'll think about this option since I already have the JBL and Bash 300...

    Leave a comment:


  • jsr
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    I find the SQ to be fine, but will be honest that my use for them has been mainly HT with music use only at levels I'd estimate to be around 85-90dB (with occasional higher outputs). I've found subs that have lower extension reproduce the sub frequencies for the music I listen to with less effort. Essentially you're operating it more within its passband than one that's operating near its rolloff. It's very responsive, so I've liked how well it keeps up with fast paced music and think it does fine on musical passages that have subtle low notes with varying level (aka doesn't boom).

    Regarding power, we get overly caught up into the max numbers. Just because it is a 300W amp doesn't mean all 300W will be used. At the output levels (SPL) I'm listening to the sub, I don't think I'm using near the 300W of the amp. Just like a full range speaker...take a speaker that's 85dB sensitive at 1 meter. At 2 meters (somewhat typical listening distance), it's at 79dB at 1W. With a pair and only 2W, you have enough power for the typical listening levels (mid/high-80s). The rest of the amplifier capability is headroom. And the limits I modeled for the drivers are only Xmax, not Xmech. So those drivers may very well have much more mechanical excursion than their linear excursion indicates and may behave quite well when pushed a bit beyond Xmax. For me, I've not had issues with over-excursion or SQ in my uses.

    Leave a comment:


  • alphaiii
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    I don't know if you've really commented on it, since the focus has been more about the extension of the design... but what do you think of the SQ?

    As far as excursion limits of the JBL and Dayton PR - it seems like it should be easy to drive them too hard if using the Yung SD300, or especially the Bash 300 since it's HPF Fc is a little lower (17.7Hz), and there is a little boost before rolloff as well.

    There were threads at AVS and HTS awhile back about the Yung amps, and it seems the no-boost models have a filter at 21Hz.

    Leave a comment:


  • jsr
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    The 15" and 18" PRs are more popular so AE only lists those, but they do offer the 12" also. You just need to know the model number. They have the PR12-670 and PR12-970. The last 3 numbers indicate the total cone mass in grams. I forgot which one was more appropriate for the Digger8 design. I think it was the 970, but I'd have to check again if anyone actually wants to use these. The mass requirement changes when using a different PR. I like the AE's as they're well made and don't cost huge money. One of the main goals of the Digger8 design was to have low 20Hz performance without the price of commercially equivalent servo-based subs that cost thousands, so I designed it with low cost in mind. I'd be surprised if anyone drove the Dayton to its limits and the Dayton is cheap enough that you can try that first and if you really find yourself hitting its limit, you could pick up the AE ones (they go for about $60 + sh). Keep in mind though AE typically takes a while to fulfill orders...so a 3 week quote can easily lead to a couple of months.

    Leave a comment:


  • alphaiii
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
    Yes same as me. Perhaps Johnny has a link, or maybe the 12" is NLA?

    But the Dayton does work with the added weight.

    Kevin
    Creative Sound (CSS) has some good PR's, even though they look a bit ugly (IMO) with the method for adding mass...

    I'm still a rookie when it comes to modeling PR (and vented) subs, but I might trying playing around with some of the CSS PR's...

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by alphaiii View Post
    Right, the 12" Dayton.

    I was referring to the AE PR that jsr mentioned would work. I could only find 15" and 18" PR's on AE's site.
    Yes same as me. Perhaps Johnny has a link, or maybe the 12" is NLA?

    But the Dayton does work with the added weight.

    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by JCSquats View Post
    Dumb question. How do you add mass to that 12" PR? Does it come with washer weights, or is that something you have to get yourself, then weigh appropriately, and install? Never worked with a PR before.
    That is exactly how you do it. The PR comes with a long screw and you add the weight using the screw. It is fairly slick.

    Kevin

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  • JCSquats
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Dumb question. How do you add mass to that 12" PR? Does it come with washer weights, or is that something you have to get yourself, then weigh appropriately, and install? Never worked with a PR before.

    Leave a comment:


  • kevin007
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by jsr View Post
    If you're really concerned about PR excursion, there's an AE PR that will work perfectly and even comes with about the correct weight on the PR cone already.
    I was looking at the AE site and I don't see a 12" PR listed. Can you post a link to the the PR you are talking about. Because a 15" would require a new box since it is only 14" wide.

    Thanks,

    Kevin

    Leave a comment:


  • alphaiii
    replied
    Re: Digger 8 build

    Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
    The PR is 12"...
    Right, the 12" Dayton.

    I was referring to the AE PR that jsr mentioned would work. I could only find 15" and 18" PR's on AE's site.

    Leave a comment:

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