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  • What maybe a stupid question

    One of the things that has kept me from pulling the trigger on building a waveguide speaker like this one here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...8-mtm-kit.html is not being able to have a matching surround speaker. I know there is a 8" TM design that would match this speaker, but as far as surrounds go it would be huge.

    So my real question is could I get away with using a completely different speaker for surround duty? Would it need to be a waveguide speaker, or could I get away with a smaller TM?

    Ya'alls opinion would be appreciated.

    Thank you!

    Kevin
    Shaken, not stirred...

    Classix II
    OS MTM's
    Digger 8 sub
    Overnight Sensations Center Channel
    Sprite Build
    Wolf's PC Speakers
    Minions III with Voxel Sub

  • #2
    Re: What maybe a stupid question

    Surrounds can be different, but I think you would want to stay with something that is pretty efficient.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What maybe a stupid question

      I would love to build something that used the same waveguide. But I cant imagine having this large bookshelf speaker on the side of your head in the space I have. If I was building a dedicated HT room then that would be a different thing altogether. But in my living room, I don't think it would pass the WAF test ;-)

      Any ideas on an efficient design for surround duty?

      Kevin
      Shaken, not stirred...

      Classix II
      OS MTM's
      Digger 8 sub
      Overnight Sensations Center Channel
      Sprite Build
      Wolf's PC Speakers
      Minions III with Voxel Sub

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What maybe a stupid question

        I don't know if any. If size is a issue, then maybe the overnight sensation series or Zaph Audio ZA5 series speakers would be a better choice.

        Bic America or Klipsch might have some surrounds that might work, but cost and quality might be a issue. I wonder how good these would be with a improved crossover. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=303-434

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What maybe a stupid question

          Originally posted by generic View Post
          I don't know if any. If size is a issue, then maybe the overnight sensation series or Zaph Audio ZA5 series speakers would be a better choice.

          Bic America or Klipsch might have some surrounds that might work, but cost and quality might be a issue. I wonder how good these would be with a improved crossover. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=303-434
          I already use OS TM's for my surrounds but they aren't very efficient. They sound great, but not efficient. I had thought about Zaphs sealed TM's or even the swope TM's. They don't match very well, but what the heck right?

          Kevin
          Shaken, not stirred...

          Classix II
          OS MTM's
          Digger 8 sub
          Overnight Sensations Center Channel
          Sprite Build
          Wolf's PC Speakers
          Minions III with Voxel Sub

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What maybe a stupid question

            There's some smaller designs here

            http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=37.0

            You're giving up sensitivity with smaller designs, but the WAF 2 from that link should keep up well as a surround.
            http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What maybe a stupid question

              Originally posted by Jay1 View Post
              There's some smaller designs here

              http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?topic=37.0

              You're giving up sensitivity with smaller designs, but the WAF 2 from that link should keep up well as a surround.
              Is it just me or are all the pictures MIA? I think the WAF 2 might be worth a look.

              Thanks!

              Kevin
              Shaken, not stirred...

              Classix II
              OS MTM's
              Digger 8 sub
              Overnight Sensations Center Channel
              Sprite Build
              Wolf's PC Speakers
              Minions III with Voxel Sub

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What maybe a stupid question

                I can see them, weird?

                Click image for larger version

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                9" x 15" baffle
                http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What maybe a stupid question

                  Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
                  One of the things that has kept me from pulling the trigger on building a waveguide speaker like this one here: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...8-mtm-kit.html is not being able to have a matching surround speaker. I know there is a 8" TM design that would match this speaker, but as far as surrounds go it would be huge.

                  So my real question is could I get away with using a completely different speaker for surround duty? Would it need to be a waveguide speaker, or could I get away with a smaller TM?
                  Good question. IMO surrounds not only can be a different configuration from the mains, they should be different configuration from the mains. The roles are simply different, regardless if one's talking about multichannel music (the only thing I really care about vis a vis surrounds) or movies. The reason is simply that the human auditory system is not as good at localizing sounds in the rearward hemisphere. So while with fronts one key is getting the right balance of reflections for the preferred spaciousness/focus balance, with surrounds a broader pattern is generally beneficial.

                  Toole has a good passage on the criteria for surrounds, as one would expect, in Sound Reproduction. Toole comes out in favor of very wide horizontal coverage, and asserts (word chosen because there is no cited research to support the view) that line arrays (and especially CBT's) may in fact be the optimal surround speakers.

                  The one caveat is to watch out for gain structure. If your surrounds are very different in sensitivity from your mains, modern AVR calibration systems might not be so happy. So keep them within 6dB/W/m of the mains. That shouldn't be so hard.

                  For that kit, one of the Dayton neo widebanders (6.5" or 8"), firing up, would make great surround side and (if used) rear channels.
                  --
                  "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What maybe a stupid question

                    Originally posted by Jay1 View Post
                    I can see them, weird?

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]38730[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38731[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38732[/ATTACH]

                    9" x 15" baffle
                    I am at work right now and they block photobucket. Weird huh?

                    Kevin
                    Shaken, not stirred...

                    Classix II
                    OS MTM's
                    Digger 8 sub
                    Overnight Sensations Center Channel
                    Sprite Build
                    Wolf's PC Speakers
                    Minions III with Voxel Sub

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What maybe a stupid question

                      Originally posted by Pallas View Post
                      Good question. IMO surrounds not only can be a different configuration from the mains, they should be different configuration from the mains. The roles are simply different, regardless if one's talking about multichannel music (the only thing I really care about vis a vis surrounds) or movies. The reason is simply that the human auditory system is not as good at localizing sounds in the rearward hemisphere. So while with fronts one key is getting the right balance of reflections for the preferred spaciousness/focus balance, with surrounds a broader pattern is generally beneficial.

                      Toole has a good passage on the criteria for surrounds, as one would expect, in Sound Reproduction. Toole comes out in favor of very wide horizontal coverage, and asserts (word chosen because there is no cited research to support the view) that line arrays (and especially CBT's) may in fact be the optimal surround speakers.

                      The one caveat is to watch out for gain structure. If your surrounds are very different in sensitivity from your mains, modern AVR calibration systems might not be so happy. So keep them within 6dB/W/m of the mains. That shouldn't be so hard.

                      For that kit, one of the Dayton neo widebanders (6.5" or 8"), firing up, would make great surround side and (if used) rear channels.
                      My current configuration is OS TM's on those steel stands on each side of the couch. I would like to stay with the current setup. So I want to keep it small and simple.

                      Kevin
                      Shaken, not stirred...

                      Classix II
                      OS MTM's
                      Digger 8 sub
                      Overnight Sensations Center Channel
                      Sprite Build
                      Wolf's PC Speakers
                      Minions III with Voxel Sub

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What maybe a stupid question

                        My main system is four way front loaded horns, and for surrounds I have been using Adire HE10.1 speakers.(Eminence beta 10cx/apt50)

                        I have the Adires apart at the moment to do some experimenting. In the meantime, I'm using a pair of NHT Super Ones as surrounds. They work quite well, even though they are nowhere near as efficient. Just have to take it easy on the volume to not blow them up.

                        That's about as big a difference as you can get, and still works fine, so don't let your surrounds limit your choice of main speakers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What maybe a stupid question

                          There are some smaller waveguide designs coming soon. This shows one next to the Alpha-8 "Minion".

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What maybe a stupid question

                            That's awesome that some smaller waveguide speakers are coming out. Will they be as sensitive as their big brothers? I ask because I know you want to be in the ball park if you team them up with something like say the fusion MTM.

                            Thanks,

                            Kevin
                            Shaken, not stirred...

                            Classix II
                            OS MTM's
                            Digger 8 sub
                            Overnight Sensations Center Channel
                            Sprite Build
                            Wolf's PC Speakers
                            Minions III with Voxel Sub

                            Comment

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