Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

[flowflowz]

I made this list for me to help me what to build but maybe people like me would have those informations.
I would to make a "can't go wrong" list of the best bookshelf speaker i can't get for a specified amount of money, for a specified size and if i needed to build a sub to hear something under 50hz. I don't care about the sensitivity.
The designs can be 2 or 3 ways but never bigger than 20L if possible.

I want to precise this list without any intention to be the list of the best speakers even if this was in my stupid title.
I made my choices by reading threads on this forum and some websites : meniscus, diysoundgroup, selah audio, ht guide, diyaudio, troels and P.Carmody websites, etc... . Unfortunately it's hard to find lot of informations about MWAF, Indiyana, IWOA with a complete lit of speakers and the competitions results. So this is a sort of a personal conclusion after reading lot of posts.

Are only listed speakers that i can buy as a kit or enough documented to build them without asking hundred questions to the designer.
The $$$ includes all parts, the speakers, the crossovers parts, damping materials, hardware, etc. except the wood.

If you think it's a good idea please help me to fill it, suggest me other choices or correct my mistakes.
If you think my excel sheet is a non sense please tell me why.

I could add one or two column on the right to have two or three speaker choice for each category. But i would to keep it quite simple.

Sorry for my bad English

Florian

[carlspeak]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

It is only nonsense if you or someone else does not keep it current into the future. A list like this sort of like a list of 'best' wine. Something will come along that is a little bit better or different. If lists like these are not kept current they will eventually be of no great value other than a historical compendium.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

Carl's point is valid.

I do think though that Florian made it clear in the body of his message that he intended it to be a resource listing available DIY designs for standmount speakers categorized by price and size and did not intend for it to be a "best" list in spite of his title.

I like the idea Florian. I think having a column listing the url for the design or for the place to purchase it would be nice and perhaps a column for whether it is available with a cabinet or not.

If you are looking for suggestions on speakers to add to your list, I am sure you will get many of those.

One you could add is here http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ir-parts-only/
and another is the Arietta 5 at Zalytron

[mzisserson]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

Best, or most popular? There's the rub my friend. Your audience is small. The DIY community sticks to their own and it is impossible to find a stastically accurate sample of anything that would prove anything other than most popular.

Like any other crap in this world everyone likes the smell of their own, and usually friends, or popularity in circles can tolerate the smell even if they dont think its the "best" out of respect for the designer.

There is no doubt the overnight sensations are a very popular speaker, as well as the lithum, Zaph's small kit, but are these the best? I don't know.... I have not heard them aganst everything out there and even then it would still be an opnion.

What they have in common: Cheap, easy to build, available as a kit (two if them anyway), quantity of midbass, quantity of documented builds, and smooth overall sound when used reasonablly. All of which are qualites that would meet the expectations if small bookshelf speakers. When those expectations are met along with cheap and easy there is the percieved value. Does this make them teh "Best", no. It makes them popular for good reason. The best is up to the end user and most do not have a decerning enough ear to care anyway. At one point some entry-level to mid-level kits were a great value, but now there are things showing up on retail shelvs for little more than can give them a run for their money..... I have seen a few desigers around here step up thir game and get creative, otherwise it's the same ol stuff that was available 10 years ago.

$0.02, worth even less. YMMV, all that jazz and so-on.

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

It is only nonsense if you or someone else does not keep it current into the future. A list like this sort of like a list of 'best' wine. Something will come along that is a little bit better or different. If lists like these are not kept current they will eventually be of no great value other than a historical compendium.

Totally agree with you. this list have to be updated. But i don't think my job will be too hard since, i took only well documented or kit avaible bookshelf designs. Designers don't make new design every day. I think updating this list every month is not so hard, if people help me on this thread.
It started from this idea : "i have this amount of money, i have this room to place my speaker, what i could build ?"
We could keep the old version too maybe on a photobucket or a shared google spreadsheet.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

I agree that if the goal is to have a list of "BEST" DIY designs available in each of his categories then that isn't so helpful. If the goal is to have an accessible concise list of well documented and reasonably well regarded standmount speakers within his various size and cost categories then that would be a helpful thing I think.

If you try to surf through the sticky at the top of the page for links to existing designs it becomes clear that a more concise or targeted list might be nice. Florian's title including the word best was an unfortunate choice.

Best, or most popular? There's the rub my friend. Your audience is small. The DIY community sticks to their own and it is impossible to find a stastically accurate sample of anything that would prove anything other than most popular.

Like any other crap in this world everyone likes the smell of their own, and usually friends, or popularity in circles can tolerate the smell even if they dont think its the "best" out of respect for the designer.

There is no doubt the overnight sensations are a very popular speaker, as well as the lithum, Zaph's small kit, but are these the best? I don't know.... I have not heard them aganst everything out there and even then it would still be an opnion.

What they have in common: Cheap, easy to build, available as a kit (two if them anyway), quantity of midbass, quantity of documented builds, and smooth overall sound when used reasonablly. All of which are qualites that would meet the expectations if small bookshelf speakers. When those expectations are met along with cheap and easy there is the percieved value. Does this make them teh "Best", no. It makes them popular for good reason. The best is up to the end user and most do not have a decerning enough ear to care anyway. At one point some entry-level to mid-level kits were a great value, but now there are things showing up on retail shelvs for little more than can give them a run for their money..... I have seen a few desigers around here step up thir game and get creative, otherwise it's the same ol stuff that was available 10 years ago.

$0.02, worth even less. YMMV, all that jazz and so-on.

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

Best, or most popular? There's the rub my friend. Your audience is small. The DIY community sticks to their own and it is impossible to find a stastically accurate sample of anything that would prove anything other than most popular.

Like any other crap in this world everyone likes the smell of their own, and usually friends, or popularity in circles can tolerate the smell even if they dont think its the "best" out of respect for the designer.

There is no doubt the overnight sensations are a very popular speaker, as well as the lithum, Zaph's small kit, but are these the best? I don't know.... I have not heard them aganst everything out there and even then it would still be an opnion.

What they have in common: Cheap, easy to build, available as a kit (two if them anyway), quantity of midbass, quantity of documented builds, and smooth overall sound when used reasonablly. All of which are qualites that would meet the expectations if small bookshelf speakers. When those expectations are met along with cheap and easy there is the percieved value. Does this make them teh "Best", no. It makes them popular for good reason. The best is up to the end user and most do not have a decerning enough ear to care anyway. At one point some entry-level to mid-level kits were a great value, but now there are things showing up on retail shelvs for little more than can give them a run for their money..... I have seen a few desigers around here step up thir game and get creative, otherwise it's the same ol stuff that was available 10 years ago.

$0.02, worth even less. YMMV, all that jazz and so-on.

This is the point. i won't and i can't judge the quality of the designs. I just try to sum up all information i can find here and there about kits.
So of course it's the most popular and maybe not the best. But sometimes, its the most popular for a reason.
And when you are searching around to build a speaker already designed, you search for the one than fit your criteria and then you search if someone already heard it and what he thinks about it.
I have to trust people. But i hope most of us can tell the truth without be irritating when we talk about a designed speaker. If not, we couldn't go forward.

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

I agree that if the goal is to have a list of "BEST" DIY designs available in each of his categories then that isn't so helpful. If the goal is to have an accessible concise list of well documented and reasonably well regarded standmount speakers within his various size and cost categories then that would be a helpful thing I think.

If you try to surf through the sticky at the top of the page for links to existing designs it becomes clear that a more concise or targeted list might be nice. Florian's title including the word best was an unfortunate choice.

Well for the title its a little bit too much i agree. i should call it the "you can't go wrong list". But i dont want to make a list for every 2way bookshelf speakers. Even if i not mention good speakers, if i read somewhere "too boomy", "the XO have to be reworked" or anything like that i can't put it on my "wish list". I wouldn't to buy or recommend to buy to a friend a speaker that never be heard or never be appreciated by people. It's maybe stupid but it's all i've got, if i read :" the tritons were the best in show", maybe i would look more in depth for this build.

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

well after all you are maybe right, i'm nobody to tell if the Eton S7 kit should be bought, or if the mandolin is a better choice... so maybe a list with well documented speakers and their link will be more usefull. People will chose by themselves after.

[mzisserson]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

This is the point. i won't and i can't judge the quality of the designs. I just try to sum up all information i can find here and there about kits.
So of course it's the most popular and maybe not the best. But sometimes, its the most popular for a reason. And when you are searching around to build a speaker already designed, you search for the one than fit your criteria and then you search if someone already heard it and what he thinks about it.
I have to trust people. But i hope most of us can tell the truth without be irritating when we talk about a designed speaker. If not, we couldn't go forward.

Agreed. But what is that reason? A lot of people say so? In my mind's eye of the top DIY speakers out there (not including my own) from mini-to max are not in kit form, and usual don't have many, if any, builds. There is nothing wrong with a well documented list, in fact isn't that a sticky already?

There are a lot of builds that go buy with so little as a puff because they do not use cretin brands, series, or the designer is not the best politician. Again, not speaking of myself. What frustrates me about a thread like this is that these builds can easily be missed with the "noise" of the popular kids in the faces of those looking for a build that will fit their needs. What would truly be nice... (huh, maybe I will head this up....) is a list of available DIY speakers categorized and have certain specifications submitted by the designer themselves, with measurements if available, all responsibility of the data given being that of the designer, that way some more comprehensive decisions can be made independent of popularity. I know it could do the community good. The best example I can think of is David Crewe's "Saffron" build that won Iron Driver. They were amazing and well beyond their cost in terms of performance. Yet poof. they come and go. I am trying to remember there was a small 2-way as well in there that I was amazed at the performance for the money.... Cabs not much, if any bigger than many 4" bookshelves.... it too quietly gets shoved by the way-side due to popularity. I likely should not care as much as I do. It's just ironic how people will down major brands, and popular speakers as being just that and nothing more, yet there are DIY kits and the like that should receive the same scrutiny. Careful though....say anything against the grain and you may be forever labeled...A heretic.

lol. Appreciate the work though! It is a good idea overall and like I said, just needs to be assembled well.

[its_bacon12]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

The best example I can think of is David Crewe's "Saffron" build that won Iron Driver. They were amazing and well beyond their cost in terms of performance. Yet poof. they come and go. I am trying to remember there was a small 2-way as well in there that I was amazed at the performance for the money....

I think the big reason for these was the ease (or lack thereof) of reproducing the cabinet. It's a very unique shape that I certainly don't have the time or will to reproduce, nor will it look great for my purposes. That said, it would work for some and it has enormous appeal given the low cost. If there were an alternative to the cabinet - more mainstream tower build - this would be a much more popular build I suspect.

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

Agreed. But what is that reason? A lot of people say so? In my mind's eye of the top DIY speakers out there (not including my own) from mini-to max are not in kit form, and usual don't have many, if any, builds. There is nothing wrong with a well documented list, in fact isn't that a sticky already?

There are a lot of builds that go buy with so little as a puff because they do not use cretin brands, series, or the designer is not the best politician. Again, not speaking of myself. What frustrates me about a thread like this is that these builds can easily be missed with the "noise" of the popular kids in the faces of those looking for a build that will fit their needs. What would truly be nice... (huh, maybe I will head this up....) is a list of available DIY speakers categorized and have certain specifications submitted by the designer themselves, with measurements if available, all responsibility of the data given being that of the designer, that way some more comprehensive decisions can be made independent of popularity. I know it could do the community good. The best example I can think of is David Crewe's "Saffron" build that won Iron Driver. They were amazing and well beyond their cost in terms of performance. Yet poof. they come and go. I am trying to remember there was a small 2-way as well in there that I was amazed at the performance for the money.... Cabs not much, if any bigger than many 4" bookshelves.... it too quietly gets shoved by the way-side due to popularity. I likely should not care as much as I do. It's just ironic how people will down major brands, and popular speakers as being just that and nothing more, yet there are DIY kits and the like that should receive the same scrutiny. Careful though....say anything against the grain and you may be forever labeled...A heretic.

lol. Appreciate the work though! It is a good idea overall and like I said, just needs to be assembled well.

well ok maybe i can elaborate a sort of a simple but complete excel sheet of most important datas about available kits. i have already collected some datas but i need to know what to put in columns. like, type of XO, f3, f6, f10, sealed, BR, volume, sensivity, etc... if you think its a good idea i can try to do something.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

By the way, the Continuum is a 7 liter speaker, not a 10 liter one.

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

By the way, the Continuum is a 7 liter speaker, not a 10 liter one.

I corrected my mistake in the file

[flowflowz]

Re: Excel sheet : Best bookshelf speaker by category

Well,
I tried something, if it means something for people i can continue.
Is there some informations that i should add or columns i should delete ?
It could be great to the same type of list for big events like the next IWOA, don't you think so ?