small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

[charlielaub]

I need a small midrange for an upcoming project. The Scan Speak 10F is a class leader. Can the Faital Pro come close for about half the cost?

To make the measurements, I clamped both drivers in a test jig - e.g. no baffle, sometimes referred to as the "nude" driver response. I was most interested in distortion performance. I didn't measure it, but I would guesstimate that the SPL in the "passband" above 2kHz reached 90dB or so. It was too loud to be in the room when a single tone was playing.

I did frequency response measurements in ARTA using the "center impulse in window" so that I could get some distortion info. Next I used STEPS to measure the distortion in a more accurate way. The distortion is plotted both as SPL and percent distortion.

The winner? Well I didn't expect anything else... it's the 10F. But I wanted to see how much worse the distortion of the Faital Pro would be. Answer: not even remotely close! See the plots below for the data, and decide for yourself.

In my application I will be using the driver "nude" down to about 700Hz. This will require on the order of 12dB of boost, starting around 2kHz at the dipole peak and increasing as the frequency decreases, to bring up the drooping response. With that much boost, distortion performance is very important. As you can see, the 10F has slowly increasing distortion with decreasing frequency but its still reasonable. I have seen other tests by MarkK and Zaph (?) that show just how good this driver is even when driven hard.

The Faital Pro does have an edge WRT sensitivity, with about 2dB more output for the same input voltage (see red+blue FR plot). It might make a nice midrange but compared to other drivers in the $40ish range I am not sure it is a standout.

I'd like to thank BenchTester for loaning me a 10F pair. Thanks and I haven't forgotten about you! Looks like I will have to break down and get a pair of these for myself.

-Charlie

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

I need a small midrange for an upcoming project. The Scan Speak 10F is a class leader. Can the Faital Pro come close for about half the cost?

To make the measurements, I clamped both drivers in a test jig - e.g. no baffle, sometimes referred to as the "nude" driver response. I was most interested in distortion performance. I didn't measure it, but I would guesstimate that the SPL in the "passband" above 2kHz reached 90dB or so. It was too loud to be in the room when a single tone was playing.

I did frequency response measurements in ARTA using the "center impulse in window" so that I could get some distortion info. Next I used STEPS to measure the distortion in a more accurate way. The distortion is plotted both as SPL and percent distortion.

The winner? Well I didn't expect anything else... it's the 10F. But I wanted to see how much worse the distortion of the Faital Pro would be. Answer: not even remotely close! See the plots below for the data, and decide for yourself.

In my application I will be using the driver "nude" down to about 700Hz. This will require on the order of 12dB of boost, starting around 2kHz at the dipole peak and increasing as the frequency decreases, to bring up the drooping response. With that much boost, distortion performance is very important. As you can see, the 10F has slowly increasing distortion with decreasing frequency but its still reasonable. I have seen other tests by MarkK and Zaph (?) that show just how good this driver is even when driven hard.

The Faital Pro does have an edge WRT sensitivity, with about 2dB more output for the same input voltage (see red+blue FR plot). It might make a nice midrange but compared to other drivers in the $40ish range I am not sure it is a standout.

I'd like to thank BenchTester for loaning me a 10F pair. Thanks and I haven't forgotten about you! Looks like I will have to break down and get a pair of these for myself.

-Charlie

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41482[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]41484[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]41483[/ATTACH]

thanks for the nice info charlie. Not even close is right!

[JackNC]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

Hi Charlie:

Thanks for the data but I have to ask because I'm looking at 8 of them for my own project: Did you consider the newer 4FE35? Its $25 vs $37 and has 1 more mm of linear Xmax. That could make a fair difference down at the low end...

Jack

[Pete Basel]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

Since distortion is most often dependent on level it is really not fair to do
these tests at the same voltage in, rather you should try to match levels.
Not doing so unfairly lowers the ranking of higher efficiency drivers.
I would have dropped the level by 3 to 5 dB if you were primarily looking
at midrange distortion, or perhaps 2 dB if more interested in LF distortion.
There are more advanced measurement systems that will adjust Vin for
constant SPL across the measurement frequency range.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

Keep in mind the use of these as true mids. Forget about the stuff below 400Hz and look at the trash above that point. The Scan is not just a little lower overall. It's significantly better over the entire range of operation. The Faital has MUCH higher odd order distortion than the Scan, most notably the 5th harmonic. 3rd harmonic actually reaches 3% at 700Hz with the 5th harmonic peaking above 1% just above 400Hz. The 2dB difference in sensitivity won't make that much difference when adjusted for the same SPL.

It would be interesting to see if adding mass to that stamped frame of the Faital would improve things. The Scan sports a much nicer frame.

[r-carpenter]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

Since distortion is most often dependent on level it is really not fair to do
these tests at the same voltage in, rather you should try to match levels.
Not doing so unfairly lowers the ranking of higher efficiency drivers.
I would have dropped the level by 3 to 5 dB if you were primarily looking
at midrange distortion, or perhaps 2 dB if more interested in LF distortion.
There are more advanced measurement systems that will adjust Vin for
constant SPL across the measurement frequency range.

I second this.
As an example if we were to compare a 100db/watt/m 15" pro driver to, let's say 15" Ultimax at 86.5 dB 1W/1m and perform the comparison at the same input voltage, Ultimax would show miniscule distortion levels simply because of it's lower efficiency and produced SPL.
The measurements of a single driver are fairly easy but a comparison of two different drivers has to be done within defined boundaries.
Having said that, Scan should perform slightly better, it's twice the price and sells as a high performance mid for consumer audio. Faital is a dedicated Pro driver manufacturer which may be used in some home applications. Will we see Faitals in DIY speakers? Probably yes. Will we see Scan mids used in Pro application? Probably no.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

Just wanted to pop in and agree with PeteB and Roman on this. It is why I do my personal distortion testing at 90db/1M regardless of driver size, efficiency or reputation. It is illuminating how some drivers behave when asked to perform a 90db sine sweep, vs a 1.4 or 2.8V signal. Even more fun, I do my system distortion tests at 90db/1M regardless of what kind of system it is. That will make a lot of drivers sweat, especially if you are looking at a 4-6" full BSC bookshelf speaker. The key is matching SPL, not voltage. Otherwise - how can you accurately compare them in a system side-by-side, unless of course you listen at the same voltage the tests were taken under.

That being said, I would be surprised if the Scan did not measure better. It looks to be a better engineered driver - but would probably let the smoke out in any kind of pro environment

[charlielaub]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

I agree that in it is best to match SPL levels when making comparisons, however, in this case the difference was only 2dB. This is not very significant compared to the large difference in distortion levels, so I don't think that you can attribute it to SPL. IMO the distortion levels are unacceptable between 400 Hz and 800 Hz (D5 is above 1% at 400Hz) and are in general high below 1.5 kHz.

[Saturnus]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

So the premise of this test is to take a well known high performance home audio midrange driver and stack it against a (seemingly randomly chosen) pro audio midwoofer at half the price, and then limit the range of that, measure them at different levels, and then conclude the home audio midrange has a lower THD?

I'm flabbergasted as to why anyone think this is even a relevant comparison. Apples and Oranges really. They are designed for different purposes, they should be used differently, and naturally they perform very differently.

Does this mean the scan speak is better? No. Maybe for your purpose it is but try using the scan speak as a midwoofer in a compact pro monitor, and hear it fail miserably before it goes up in smoke.

[charlielaub]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

Did you consider the newer 4FE35? Its $25 vs $37 and has 1 more mm of linear Xmax. That could make a fair difference down at the low end... Jack

More importantly it has some copper in the motor to reduce distortion. The increased Xmax may help somewhat as well... I would have to measure it to see how much reduction is achieved.

[charlielaub]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

So the premise of this test is to take a well known high performance home audio midrange driver and stack it against a (seemingly randomly chosen) pro audio midwoofer at half the price, and then limit the range of that, measure them at different levels, and then conclude the home audio midrange has a lower THD?

I'm flabbergasted as to why anyone think this is even a relevant comparison. Apples and Oranges really. They are designed for different purposes, they should be used differently, and naturally they perform very differently.

Does this mean the scan speak is better? No. Maybe for your purpose it is but try using the scan speak as a midwoofer in a compact pro monitor, and hear it fail miserably before it goes up in smoke.

What? Your hyperbole is ridiculous.

Both of these drivers have:
similar Sd
similar Xmax
similar voice coil diameter
neo motor

If you think that the Faital is going to adsorb more power than the ScanSpeak in any application, for the same bandwidth and power input, you are deluding yourself.

[Saturnus]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

... you are deluding yourself.

I'm not even going to dignify such an ignorant response to a valid criticism with an answer.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

I agree that in it is best to match SPL levels when making comparisons, however, in this case the difference was only 2dB. This is not very significant compared to the large difference in distortion levels, so I don't think that you can attribute it to SPL. IMO the distortion levels are unacceptable between 400 Hz and 800 Hz (D5 is above 1% at 400Hz) and are in general high below 1.5 kHz.

I agree completely, Charlie, with this specific example. It is good information to have and offers a glimpse into what the extra money buys us.

I would like to see some torture testing, to see how each driver handles pro-audio style transients etc - but in all honestly, it is unlikely the Faital would be used alone in any pro audio environment. More likely they would end up used in arrays.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

I'm not even going to dignify such an ignorant response to a valid criticism with an answer.

If only you had bothered to look up the specs of the Faital before you opened your mouth, you'd probably not have posted what you did.

FaitalPRO 4FE32 4" Neodymium Professional Full-Range Woofer 4 Ohm

Power Handling (RMS) 30 Watts

Power handling for the Scan is the same.

This little Faital is intended to be used in multiple numbers for line array applications. It would not outlast the Scanspeak in pro environment as a dedicated mid in a pro monitor. They'd both turn to smoke.

[mzisserson]

Re: small midrange shootout: Faital Pro 4FE32 and ScanSpeak 10F4424G00

thanks for the nice info charlie. Not even close is right!

+1