Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

[t3steve]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Quick question how does this speaker compare to the smallest Diy Sound Group speakers:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/alpha-series-kits/alpha8-kit.html

and

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion8-kit.html

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Quick question how does this speaker compare to the smallest Diy Sound Group speakers:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/alpha-series-kits/alpha8-kit.html

and
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...sion8-kit.html

This would probably be very comparable to the first one you linked. Not being a fan of compression tweeters, I would be partial to this build for that reason. This build probably sacrifices some sensitivity compared to those as well, but offers deeper bass extension.

[t3steve]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Pete,
Thank you, looks like a great speaker.

[PWR RYD]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

This would probably be very comparable to the first one you linked. Not being a fan of compression tweeters, I would be partial to this build for that reason. This build probably sacrifices some sensitivity compared to those as well, but offers deeper bass extension.

I have only heard one version of the Econowaves, but I have to agree Pete. While they were extremely dynamic I just didn't care for the compression/horn tweeters at all. It's probably just personal preference as I know the pair I heard were a top notch build and a great example of the Econowave rave and many people do like how they sound.

That said I really hope I get the chance to hear this project of yours at an upcoming DIY event. I have heard the RS28A in similar waveguides (your project at DIY Chicago) and really liked how effortlessly and dynamically they sounded. Especially on the sound track from "Gladiator". That was cool!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

I have only heard one version of the Econowaves, but I have to agree Pete. While they were extremely dynamic I just didn't care for the compression/horn tweeters at all. It's probably just personal preference as I know the pair I heard were a top notch build and a great example of the Econowave rave and many people do like how they sound.

That said I really hope I get the chance to hear this project of yours at an upcoming DIY event. I have heard the RS28A in similar waveguides (your project at DIY Chicago) and really liked how effortlessly and dynamically they sounded. Especially on the sound track from "Gladiator". That was cool!

These monitors have many of the qualities you heard in Chicago.

I'm a sad guy now. I've taken them down and started work on the final steps to finish off the project. No music tonight, and it will be a few days before I get them back together. (Applying the secret formula to the cabinet walls to turn them into proper launch platforms.) Not sure how I'm gonna do it, but I want to get the baffle painted. Problem is, we've been hit with a deep freeze that could stick around a couple weeks. At least I'll have time to decide on a proper color.

[Erich H]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

I have only heard one version of the Econowaves, but I have to agree Pete. While they were extremely dynamic I just didn't care for the compression/horn tweeters at all. It's probably just personal preference as I know the pair I heard were a top notch build and a great example of the Econowave rave and many people do like how they sound.

Depends on the designer, and the diaphragm material, and certainly the horn/waveguide they were in. Many Econowaves used titanium diaphragms.

The DNA-205 driver is very much like the B&C DE10 and they both use mylar for the diaphragm. It also tests very similar to the RS28 in a smaller waveguide. Matter of fact, if you open up the DE10 and the RS28, you'll see that they are very similar.

The biggest thing is certainly what the designer does with the driver.



Pete, if you ever want to work with something like the SEOS-10, DE-10, and a FaitalPro 8" woofer, let me know and I'll send you the parts in a test box.

[BeeTL]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

The pro woofers I've been looking at all seem to fit with a 7-1/4" cut out for rear mounting.

Do you happen to know if the mounting hole pattern for the Eminence Beta-8A is identical to the B&C 8PS21?

This would probably be very comparable to the first one you linked. Not being a fan of compression tweeters, I would be partial to this build for that reason. This build probably sacrifices some sensitivity compared to those as well, but offers deeper bass extension.

I haven't had the chance to do the research, but does the profile on your MDF waveguide and Daves acrylic RS28 version match?

[davepellegrene]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

I can't answer that as I've not worked with the Beta 8-A.

As far as my guide matching Pete's mine was taken from the same profile of Dan's. I can adjust the depth to what ever you want. I've done the eight inch guides as shallow as an 1-1/2". I'm guessing my 8" guide would be real close to the one Pete has since my overall size is 8" and the mouth is between 7-1/4" to 7-1/2" where it flattens out.

Dave

[Erich H]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Do you happen to know if the mounting hole pattern for the Eminence Beta-8A is identical to the B&C 8PS21?

They don't match up.

[BeeTL]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

They don't match up.

That's a bummer.

:(

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Update:

The cabinet is back in service after the internal mods. So I went ahead and tried out a different crossover. I pushed the woofer inductor to 5.6mH instead of the 4mH shown below, and removed the extra BSC inductor and resistor shown in an earlier attempt. I liked the higher BSC version so I figured to just incorporate it into a single inductor of larger value.

The mod to the woofer inductor also mandated the tweeter network change some values. Now the 5.1 Ohm resistor is 7.5 and the 4.7uF at the input to the tweeter is now 3.3uF.

I'll give this version a few days of listening before coming to any conclusions. All these changes are very subtle so it may take a while to identify if there are any issues.

The woofer continues to impress . . .

[BeeTL]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Pete,

I really enjoyed our conversation last night...THANK YOU!!!

I have a lot to think about, but I think I have a good idea what direction I'll be heading in.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Pete,

I really enjoyed our conversation last night...THANK YOU!!!

I have a lot to think about, but I think I have a good idea what direction I'll be heading in.

I had fun too.

The more I think about it, the more I think the Marksmen are exactly what you want for your idea.

Last night, I queued up "Do You Feel Like We Do". The grin on my face got bigger and bigger as the volume pushed past 95dB at the listening position. When I closed my eyes, it sounded like I was at the venue, ambient queues and all. A wall of sound coming from these two little cabinets just defies my preconceptions of the envisioned result. If you can't tell, I have a lot of fun while listening to rock music on these speakers. They just play so loud without losing any clarity; drums like few monitors I've ever heard; strong, vibrant vocals that don't waver across the stage; very natural, powerful sound.

I was listening to a choral track last night too, a very dense collection of voices, and tried to focus in on particular individuals. While doing that, I had the spectrum analyzer going on Foobar to see where the musical content focused. I paid close attention to the crossover region, voices that stayed in that area, the sopranos obviously, moved back and forth across that band. I knew when the RS28 would be handling the job, and when the B&C was taking over. I could not hear any change in character of those voices as they moved across the crossover region. These drivers seem to work very well together.

The RS28A is a great dome tweeter, despite it's lack of extension above 15KHz. While listening to some hi-rez tracks, one track in particular popped up that caught my attention. It was very clear recording of a clarinet and piano, "Blue Dream" by Bruce Stark. When the house was really quiet I was just enjoying the tone and relaxing when I thought I heard something wrong with the tweeter. So I paid very close attention to listen for that very quiet buzz I heard. There it was, and it struck me. The sound was of the spit flinging off the reed when he was playing quiet notes. And then I started noticing that I could also hear the valves clicking on the body of the instrument, way down in level. This was with the volume turned back already. Then I started to notice other things. The piano mechanical noises were there too. Not just the sound of the string, but the strike of the hammer and the movement of the damper. You could easily miss them, but there they were when I started paying close attention to everything. I'd go as far as saying that the pairing of the Dayton and B&C make for a pretty resolving speaker.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Depends on the designer, and the diaphragm material, and certainly the horn/waveguide they were in. Many Econowaves used titanium diaphragms.

The DNA-205 driver is very much like the B&C DE10 and they both use mylar for the diaphragm. It also tests very similar to the RS28 in a smaller waveguide. Matter of fact, if you open up the DE10 and the RS28, you'll see that they are very similar.

The biggest thing is certainly what the designer does with the driver.



Pete, if you ever want to work with something like the SEOS-10, DE-10, and a FaitalPro 8" woofer, let me know and I'll send you the parts in a test box.

Which Faital woofer? The 8PR200? That one looks like it could be fun.

[BeeTL]

Re: Home/Pro 8" 2-way: RS28A and B&C 8BG51

Your enthusiasm for the 8BG51 is contagious!

I'm not sure if I can get the waveguide milled in hardwood...TBD.

Truthfully, it may be best to go with a drop-in vs. custom, at least to start.

I'm impressed with what I read on either the EOS-8 or the B&C ME15 or 20 horns.

I'd like to try one with a driver like the DE10 or DE250 or Erich H's Denovo equivalent.

Honestly...I'd be very interested in tour take on the DE10 vs RS-28.

That could be a real eye-opener.

I think whatever we come up with will blow the minds of the crowd I'm targeting.