being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

[andy19191]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I know a lot of scientists that go to church on Sundays and go back to work on Monday.... Doesn't prevent them from practicing logic six days a week.

This is not a good comparison because scientific/logical knowledge is not in conflict with traditional religious beliefs about matters that lie outside the physical domain and cannot be studied using science. Audiophile beliefs on the other hand often are about matters that lie in the physical domain and, as you say, can be shown to be false via straightforward experiments.

[andy19191]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I'm personally getting kinda sick of the audiophile bashing around here. The rhetoric is most likely correct, that's not the issue. I'm just TIRED of it, that's all. It's all been said. Numbers of times.

In moderation I find threads like this to be of some use in letting one know where people are coming from and helping to weight their contributions in other threads.

[maynardg]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I just am not in a position to deny first-person phenomenological experience. I guess because I am a psychologist. Telling someone what they just experienced is not true is not very productive. As a scientist, I know it is difficult and expensive to accumulate evidence of high verisimilitude to argue against another person's experience - especially in the domain of perception due to broad individual differences. And to what end?

As long as that person's phenomenological experience is not hurting them, others, or their ability to function in other spheres of life - it is of little consequence. And yes, it is their wallet.

[lorenmjones]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

Craig,

I deleted my post because I thought better of it, but I guess you saw it before I got it removed. I was off target with the "superiority" bit. I don't know you. I think there is a mindset among some audiophiles that the only "real music" is a well done recording of unamplified instruments, generally using a distant micing technique etc. And among such audiophiles there would be a subsequent mindset (just my observation) that recordings of that style are the only way to really properly judge a playback system.

I mix live sound so to the extent that constitutes "hearing the real thing" then I do that quite frequently. I was trying to make the point that the place where an instrument or an orchestra of them is heard has more impact on the sound than many other things that we consider important after the fact. The idea of an absolute standard from a human perceptual perspective is what I question. The standard by which a speaker should be judged is mostly measurable and objective. There is certainly the need for "voicing" but I think that most would agree that a playback system should have high bandwidth, as linear of a frequency response as possible, lowest distortion possible etc. Beyond those basic measurable standards it is a matter of personal taste as far as voicing goes.

BTW, a Telecaster or a Strat or a Les Paul etc all sound pretty bad without an amplifier/speaker combo that is decidedly and purposely nonlinear. Where are you sitting relative to said guitar amp? Because the HF response on those is extremely directional.

I do apologize for the part of my previous comment that was accusatory toward you. I hope you will accept my apology on that. All the best to you...

you missed the entire point, it is not about being superior to anyone or thing, I have no idea where you are getting this from and injecting it in to my comments, I said no such thing. I go and listen to live music with real instruments so I have an idea of what they sound like. apparently other people through the years also listen to instruments also or there would not be such a demand for strat violins, telecaster guitars, zildjian cymbals etc. apparently some musicians must like to hear a certain sound also. how can you voice a speaker without having an idea of what an instrument sounds like. using a female or male voice that you have never heard live really does not help much. if it does not make sense to you to judge your speakers to the real thing, how are you judging them. that makes know sense. you have to have some kind of standard to judge something with.
as far as listening, I have a dedicated listening room. the one thing that I will agree with you on is this is "YOUR"
opinion, just like I gave mine. I do not have to like or agree with yours and you do not have to agree with mine. I just can not understand your logic of listening to music and not judging it against actual music. makes no sense.

[andy19191]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I just am not in a position to deny first-person phenomenological experience. I guess because I am a psychologist.

Who is denying people's perceptions? What is in dispute is the cause of different perceptions and not the perceptions themselves. For example, under blind conditions some people that can hear differences in cables sighted have reported they continue to hear one or other of those cables under blind conditions. But the cable they hear is uncorrelated with the cable that is being used.

[jinjuku]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

As long as that person's phenomenological experience is not hurting them, others,

I think that is a lynch pin of threads that get going like this.

If you think there is a video quality difference between a $20 BJC HDMI and a $500 AQ HDMI 1 meter cable then your phenomenological experience is based solely in the delusional. What you have done to yourself and others at this point is ignore the HARD science and why there can not be a difference.

It has the potential to get someone to spend $500 that is better spent elsewhere. I've seen posters that really couldn't afford that $500 go ahead and make the stretch based on some ones complete lack of understanding of the technology.

[carlspeak]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

What about a person that is obsessed with eeking out that last 0.00001% of sound out of their system, yet do it without the latest snake oil tweak, instead they use testable, verifiable methods?

What would they be defined as?

An outlier!

Here's Urban Legend web site's definition of audiophilia nervosa http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...ilia%20nervosa

[maynardg]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I would think free will and critical thinking are the responsibility of the buyer. Let me clarify, I said I am not in a position to deny another person's experience, but I sure as heck don't have to assume I would have the same experiences. It is my responsibility if I do, not the person who related the experience to me. If I spend, and I'm disappointed, it is strictly my fault.

I think that is a lynch pin of threads that get going like this.

If you think there is a video quality difference between a $20 BJC HDMI and a $500 AQ HDMI 1 meter cable then your phenomenological experience is based solely in the delusional. What you have done to yourself and others at this point is ignore the HARD science and why there can not be a difference.

It has the potential to get someone to spend $500 that is better spent elsewhere. I've seen posters that really couldn't afford that $500 go ahead and make the stretch based on some ones complete lack of understanding of the technology.

[craigk]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

Craig,

I deleted my post because I thought better of it, but I guess you saw it before I got it removed. I was off target with the "superiority" bit. I don't know you. I think there is a mindset among some audiophiles that the only "real music" is a well done recording of unamplified instruments, generally using a distant micing technique etc. And among such audiophiles there would be a subsequent mindset (just my observation) that recordings of that style are the only way to really properly judge a playback system.

I mix live sound so to the extent that constitutes "hearing the real thing" then I do that quite frequently. I was trying to make the point that the place where an instrument or an orchestra of them is heard has more impact on the sound than many other things that we consider important after the fact. The idea of an absolute standard from a human perceptual perspective is what I question. The standard by which a speaker should be judged is mostly measurable and objective. There is certainly the need for "voicing" but I think that most would agree that a playback system should have high bandwidth, as linear of a frequency response as possible, lowest distortion possible etc. Beyond those basic measurable standards it is a matter of personal taste as far as voicing goes.

BTW, a Telecaster or a Strat or a Les Paul etc all sound pretty bad without an amplifier/speaker combo that is decidedly and purposely nonlinear. Where are you sitting relative to said guitar amp? Because the HF response on those is extremely directional.

I do apologize for the part of my previous comment that was accusatory toward you. I hope you will accept my apology on that. All the best to you...

Loren, sent you a pm, but my skin is a lot thicker than that. no need to apologize about anything.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

This is not a good comparison because scientific/logical knowledge is not in conflict with traditional religious beliefs about matters that lie outside the physical domain and cannot be studied using science. Audiophile beliefs on the other hand often are about matters that lie in the physical domain and, as you say, can be shown to be false via straightforward experiments.

It was not a comparison, rather an example of irrationality.

[jinjuku]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I would think free will and critical thinking are the responsibility of the buyer. Let me clarify, I said I am not in a position to deny another person's experience.

Knowing how HDMI works, as a singular example, I sure am in a position to deny their experience.

[JRT]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

To each their own, I guess. I would rather spend $2600 on $600 worth of drivers and $2000 on Brazilian hookers then power cords, but as I said - to each their own. He has a pretty nice system, though.

John ... with you the subject always seems to turn to fishing.
;-)

[johnnyrichards]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

I would love to fish Brazil someday, the catfishing alone!

[maynardg]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

You are clearly in a well-informed and and hugely well-supported position to argue their experience is not generalizable to others. You cannot know if what they relate is their true experience or a fabrication. You can only know what they report.

Some pretty strange and terrifying things can be true experience, yet not be supported by physical observations.

Knowing how HDMI works, as a singular example, I sure am in a position to deny their experience.

[jinjuku]

Re: being an audiophile has given my friend brain rot :(

You are clearly in a well-informed and and hugely well-supported position to argue their experience is not generalizable to others. You cannot know if what they relate is their true experience or a fabrication. You can only know what they report.

Honestly not sure what you are getting at there... I'm telling you they have had a zero sum experience to begin with. When someone takes a $20 BJC 1 Meter HDMI and a $500 AQ 1 Meter HDMI and expounds about the differences in color, contract, black levels, luminance, chroma, sharpness etc they are 100% fabrications and figments of the imagination.

Not sure what people in your profession prescribe for that condition but I know some people that could use it.