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\m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

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  • \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

    I have not done a full-out build thread in a very, very long time. However due to the generous contributions from members of this community, faith in my design capability which I am grateful for and humbled by, and an opportunity to work with a VERY exciting, new driver which very few have seen, I think this will deserve a thread.

    I also am using a mid-driver I have been drooling over for some time, and my winnings from Iron Driver to round out the package. Why Metal? The woofer is Aluminium, The mid is Titanium, and the Ribbon is a doped Aluminium alloy n'uff said. The goals are to capitalize on the advantages of metal drivers in the best form possible. Speed, Accuracy, and openness. This thread will take some time to come to fruition however it will represent a build from concept to finalization. I welcome constructive input however I have a fairly good road map on how I will achieve the goals.

    The Drivers



    Seas L22RN4X/P 8" woofer



    Visaton DSM50ffl 2" Dome Midrange - Eton Symphany 3-400 Matched pair

    After extensive testing the DSM50ffl did not meet its manufacturer's specifications, a new midrange had to be chosen.




    These ribbon tweeters are manufactured in Russia and imported by Roman (R_Carpenter). They are called the AviaWave (updated) for now since that was on the Zip file of extensive data he sent on them. I will have plenty of pictures and a full update on build quality once I receive them in the next week or so. Here are some teaser measurements Roman sent me of his own doing. I am not going to comment on price, or what/where they compete among other brands. I will let the data speak then review them as a comparison once they ae in and part of the system.

    Ribbon Responces

    Horizontal 0-60 deg



    Impulse



    Distortion



    CSD



    Burst Energy Storage




    Lastly, Here is the simulation of the Box Alignment chosen for the L22. Graph includes port noise, stuffing effects and the diffraction shelf.




    Much more to come as it trickles in. Next steps are receiving the DSM 50's and running them through their paces, Do a baffle layout, and look at what I can get locally for MDF. I would like 1"...Need to call some local lumber stores.
    Last edited by mzisserson; 03-25-2014, 12:28 PM. Reason: Add notes about sim
    .

  • #2
    Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

    Timeline

    1/16/2014: Thread started.

    1/23/2014: All drivers are in-house, DSM 50's mids are an X-factor and need some measurement.

    1/25/2014: Measure the Visaton DSM 50 mid-ranges and find extremely inconstant behavior, and one may potentially be defective. With the inconstancy, it is decided to send them back and seek another mid.

    1/27/2014: It is decided the Eton 3" 3400/A28 will be the replacement

    2/23/2014: DIY NEW England

    3/14/2014: Get Wood, firm up cabinet design

    3/20/2014: Make raw cabinet cuts

    3/24/2014: Make 1st of 3 baffles
    Last edited by mzisserson; 03-25-2014, 12:22 PM.
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    • #3
      Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

      Reserved for more stuff n' junk
      .

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      • #4
        Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

        Will these be done for DIY-NE?
        Kenny

        http://www.diy-ny.com/
        DIY NY/NJ 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGwA...ature=youtu.be
        Man does not live by measurements alone, a little music helps.

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        • #5
          Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

          i'm intrigued. best metal speakers ive built and/or listened to tended to conform to a V response vs being flat. one guys thought

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          • #6
            Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

            Interesting combination. I'm looking forward to more on the Visaton mid dome and the "Avia" tweeter. That is some pretty smooth and wide dispersion on that tweeter. Are they generally available and if so, can you publish the price?
            Dan N.

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            • #7
              Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

              Originally posted by kenny_k View Post
              Will these be done for DIY-NE?
              Unfortunately not. It takes me some time to design and build. I have Work full time, school part time, and my two lil' ones that keep me busy.

              Originally posted by VegaMan View Post
              i'm intrigued. best metal speakers ive built and/or listened to tended to conform to a V response vs being flat. one guys thought
              This is what will be interesteing because that is the way I have always handeled metal dome tweeters, usually because they were budget units and has off-axis issues. These drivers are all low distortion and smooth off axis so I am actually targeting flat on axis response with controlled off-axis, however I will also address baffle diffraction in a unique manner as well which will com out in a bit when I do the mechanical drawings of the cabinet.

              Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
              Interesting combination. I'm looking forward to more on the Visaton mid dome and the "Avia" tweeter. That is some pretty smooth and wide dispersion on that tweeter. Are they generally available and if so, can you publish the price?
              I have been eyeballing the Visaton mid for a few years now.... Finally found a reason to use it. DOme mids can be finiky and I find them to be very application specific. I am hoping this works out as planned lol.

              From what I understand it is in production now. Roman only had a couple of production samples (which is why I am so honored he asked me if I would like to utilize them). As far as pricing is concerned, I will have to leave it to Roman. When he was throwing me estimates I was suprised at how low he was saying, but do not want to work off speculation. It is a WG loaded ribbon though.
              .

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              • #8
                Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                Don't ask about availability of the tweeters just yet. A friend of mine is making them and as far as I know he's working on centrifugal casting of the waveguides (AL). IF they will go in to production, the price would be compatible to Founteks. It may be that me, Mike and a couple of other people get to play with sample units only. I'll update.

                Mike, did I send you vertical axial response? If not, I will. It's fairly directional but a bit better then a standard 180* face ribbon.
                http://www.diy-ny.com/

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                • #9
                  Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                  Updates with Pics of the Ribbon in thread 1.

                  Mids should be in this week tested by next weekend and data possted, mechanical drawings underway.
                  .

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                  • #10
                    Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                    How deep is that guide Mike?
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
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                    • #11
                      Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                      How deep is that guide Mike?
                      Honestly, don't know. Roman may be able to shed some light.
                      .

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                      • #12
                        Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                        Are you going to put that dome mid in a waveguide, or even just in inset of some kind? Those acoustic centers are so different and the dispersion so different, I predict the crossover is going to give you a lot of heartburn!
                        ~Brandon
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                        • #13
                          Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                          Originally posted by augerpro View Post
                          Are you going to put that dome mid in a waveguide, or even just in inset of some kind? Those acoustic centers are so different and the dispersion so different, I predict the crossover is going to give you a lot of heartburn!
                          I am masochistic..... Bring it on! :p

                          I am unsure it will be that dramatic. I have had to deal with weird offsets before and that is the beauty of good measurements and software for design to account for it all. I am not one for convention and there are several things that if they come together are worth the trade offs of using a dome mid. That will remain to be seen during design, but it passes the sniff test in theory land.
                          .

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                          • #14
                            Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                            Drivers Finally in house.

                            The L22's surprised me. From a build quality stand point they look better than a $115 woofer. The chassis are wide open and the detail and precision looks fantastic. The frame is extremely thick and cone is beautiful. Some exercising of the cone shows a tall motor which seems to confirm a real xmax of 7mm with a 10.5mm Xlim. Should be a nice woofer and if it measures remotely close to the MFG specs, a crossover of 800Hz will be dandy.



                            The DSM50 is a nice, large 2" dome. Big motor and rear chamber. Great detail right down to the protective cover/wave guide is cast as well. The thin (2mm) face plate is metal and does not require countersinking. The fit and finish is what I would expect from a $125(ish) mid. I am going to try and measure these and the ribbons this weekend.





                            The Aviawave are smaller than I expected for how low I am being told they can cross. It is very nice they have a ROUND faceplate, and are very hefty. Interesting pattern on the ribbon element. The horn loading is not as deep as I thought it would be but it is understandable with a smaller element. I am looking forward to firing them up.





                            I hope they sound together as pretty as they look together!!!!!!!



                            Right now I am thinking Ash dyed a dark purple..... They will be a small tower all said and done.
                            .

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                            • #15
                              Re: \m/ MetaL \m/ -Design and build thread

                              Is the middle part of the ribbon a smaller pleat, textured, or flat? Thats pretty unique looking.
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