Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

[Thumper Tom]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Wow, Idk if that is expensive for that type of paint but man that seems pricey for a quart.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Erin,

Really great looking project. I would definitely be in for trying out that design once you get it completed.

Which B&C 12" are you working with? I ask because I happen to have one that I'm looking for a project for. Mine is the 12FW76 and seems to be a really excellent woofer.

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Has anyone tried or heard about speaker builders using vinyl wrap like the custom car crowd does? I was thinking about layering up a curved cabinet floor stander design with something like this for the curved cabinet:

http://www.topvinylfilms.com/catalog...inyl-88-1.html

and something like this for the baffles and press it all the way into the waveguides so it looks like they were all manufactured together in one seamless mold:

http://www.conversionvan.com/upholst...category_id=12

Dave,

Did you mention earlier that it looks like a baffle plate for this combo wave guide would be around 11.5 inches square? Also, were you thinking about trying this as part of a miniDSP fully active 3 way or 4 way design or are your plans to stay with an passive crossover, currently 3 way design? Just wondering.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Erin,

Really great looking project. I would definitely be in for trying out that design once you get it completed.

Which B&C 12" are you working with? I ask because I happen to have one that I'm looking for a project for. Mine is the 12FW76 and seems to be a really excellent woofer.

I'm going to assume you meant me since I didn't see a post from Erin or you have the wrong thread. I'm using the Eminence Deltalite II 2512.

Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Has anyone tried or heard about speaker builders using vinyl wrap like the custom car crowd does? I was thinking about layering up a curved cabinet floor stander design with something like this for the curved cabinet:

http://www.topvinylfilms.com/catalog...inyl-88-1.html

and something like this for the baffles and press it all the way into the waveguides so it looks like they were all manufactured together in one seamless mold:

http://www.conversionvan.com/upholst...category_id=12

Dave,

Did you mention earlier that it looks like a baffle plate for this combo wave guide would be around 11.5 inches square? Also, were you thinking about trying this as part of a miniDSP fully active 3 way or 4 way design or are your plans to stay with an passive crossover, currently 3 way design? Just wondering.

Yes on the baffle plate size. I have a Mini DSP 2x4 so I think all I can do with my software is a two way? I use it a lot for EQing drivers flat for distortion tests and integrating a two way just to do polar plots but I always model and build a passive crossover. I've thought about picking up a 2x8 or 2x10 but I just have not needed it yet. So to answer your question if I saw interest in this speaker when it's finished that might create the need.

Dave

[lorenmjones]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave,

I am sorry. I totally meant to type "Dave". I dunno how "Erin" got in there.

I was asking about references in this thread to other woofers besides the Deltalite to potentially mate with your mid/hi waveguide. I saw TD12 mentioned and thought you had mentioned a 12" B&C but perhaps I was mistaken.

I'm going to assume you meant me since I didn't see a post from Erin or you have the wrong thread. I'm using the Eminence Deltalite II 2512.

Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave,

I am sorry. I totally meant to type "Dave". I dunno how "Erin" got in there.

I was asking about references in this thread to other woofers besides the Deltalite to potentially mate with your mid/hi waveguide. I saw TD12 mentioned and thought you had mentioned a 12" B&C but perhaps I was mistaken.

The TD12 was an AE driver. I had mentioned the B&C 8 in this thread but I am working with it in another thread. The 12" in this speaker is rear mounted so you could swap in whatever driver you wanted if it would work in under 3c.f. and you have a way to model it or run it active.

Dave

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

OK, I am a bit restless so I thought I would riff on Dave's project. If he ends up adding the AST2560 to the mix, and the DeltaLite 12 ends up matching real well to the TB75, then I might go crazy and put those three drivers in some custom cabs with a TD15H added in for some extra madness. miniDSP 4-way for endless experimentation with filters for computer nerds like me.



This is contrary to some of my earlier goals as I am going with a large wide cabinet rather than trying to keep things slim. This is 28 x 52 inches in total, with the 3 inch mid dome at ear level around 40 inches from floor. Would have a 2 inch chamfer on all four corners and be about 18 inches deep. The two woofers are in a single cabinet with a sealed section for the DeltaLite 12, giving me maximum cabinet volume for tuning the TD15H. The waveguide combo sits in a separate cabinet and may even hold the 4 channels of power amplification in a specially vented back half section of the cabinet. It's late, I'm bored, just goofing around...

[buzzforb]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

If going that route, I would consider a Sonus Faber Stradavari style enlcosure.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

OK, I am a bit restless so I thought I would riff on Dave's project. If he ends up adding the AST2560 to the mix, and the DeltaLite 12 ends up matching real well to the TB75, then I might go crazy and put those three drivers in some custom cabs with a TD15H added in for some extra madness. miniDSP 4-way for endless experimentation with filters for computer nerds like me.



[ATTACH=CONFIG]45598[/ATTACH]

This is contrary to some of my earlier goals as I am going with a large wide cabinet rather than trying to keep things slim. This is 28 x 52 inches in total, with the 3 inch mid dome at ear level around 40 inches from floor. Would have a 2 inch chamfer on all four corners and be about 18 inches deep. The two woofers are in a single cabinet with a sealed section for the DeltaLite 12, giving me maximum cabinet volume for tuning the TD15H. The waveguide combo sits in a separate cabinet and may even hold the 4 channels of power amplification in a specially vented back half section of the cabinet. It's late, I'm bored, just goofing around...

I did some quick modeling yesterday with the Deltalite using the actual driver specs. Although I did not do any break in when I measured it. The baffle dimension I have is 15" wide by 27" tall. Anything over 15" deep just looks odd. That leaves me 2.3 c.f. So I thnk sealed is going to be the better way to go. It looks like it will naturally cross to a sub at 80 Hz. Qts. were at .51 so I don't know if breaking them in will lower it. I also measured them free air.

I think I can go vented with the AE TD12 in the same box and not have to use a sub from what I remember Buzz saying.

I'm still liking the AST30130 / AE TD12 / 12x8 rectangular waveguide.

Dave

[TN Allen]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

If you're thinking cabinets around 15" wide, why not make your midrange guide wider as well? With the various double guides I've tried, there really does seem to be enhanced midrange in the 16" diameter guides versus the smaller diameter 10-14" dia. guides, so much so that I think a 24" dia. guide might be worthwhile.

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Getting into TPL-150H territory now... I think the challenge with the AST30130 will be finding what the optimum waveguide size really is. AC specs it out as being 700Hz and up capable, but recommends a 1k cross. I wonder how low it will go in a waveguide and still handle decent SPL and low distortion? If 800 or 900 Hz, that would really be something, but even if it needed to stay at 1k and you had good directivity from there on up, that would be very interesting.

It seems to me from all the users posting on the internet that the TPL-150H really struggles with vertical directivity, as in too much/narrow. I would be surprised if you could keep the waveguide 8 inches tall and still overcome that challenge, but I suppose anything is possible, especially if the AST ribbon element is a bit shorter than the TPL to begin with, then it has a leg up on vertical dispersion going in.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

If you're thinking cabinets around 15" wide, why not make your midrange guide wider as well? With the various double guides I've tried, there really does seem to be enhanced midrange in the 16" diameter guides versus the smaller diameter 10-14" dia. guides, so much so that I think a 24" dia. guide might be worthwhile.

The flat width of the baffle is 12-1/4" wide because of the bevels cut on the baffle. the facets that taper the baffle next to the mid is about 11" wide and the guide is just under 10". To me it's important to keep a nice smooth transition from the guide around to the sides of the baffle to minimize diffraction. Also with crossing in the 600-800 Hz range this guide is wide enough to do the job so anything wider I think will take away since it would cut into my facets.

Dave.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Getting into TPL-150H territory now... I think the challenge with the AST30130 will be finding what the optimum waveguide size really is. AC specs it out as being 700Hz and up capable, but recommends a 1k cross. I wonder how low it will go in a waveguide and still handle decent SPL and low distortion? If 800 or 900 Hz, that would really be something, but even if it needed to stay at 1k and you had good directivity from there on up, that would be very interesting.

It seems to me from all the users posting on the internet that the TPL-150H really struggles with vertical directivity, as in too much/narrow. I would be surprised if you could keep the waveguide 8 inches tall and still overcome that challenge, but I suppose anything is possible, especially if the AST ribbon element is a bit shorter than the TPL to begin with, then it has a leg up on vertical dispersion going in.

Just guessing I would think the 12x8 guide would allow you to cross at 1 kHz to the 12" and at least help out on distortion at higher volumes. Then you get the plus of less diffraction, acoustic centers being aligned along with the directivity. Do you know off hand how much the TPL-150H is?

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

$580 for the TPL-150H as far as I know... My original inspiration to start looking at alternatives to compression drivers in narrow constant directivity designs but if I spent that much I would feel obligated to spring for a Volt BM2500.4 to go along with it, and then a Volt radial woofer to top it all off!

I do really like what you are doing, both options are very attractive (combo guide with mid dome and tweeter, or 12x8 on AST) but in either case it seems like a 10 or 12 inch midbass makes the most sense and I am still all over the map with what I would personally want to pick for that role. I like the dynamics and SPL of pro drivers like the DeltaLite, 10g40, or TD10 or TD12... but I am also curious about the Seas A26RE4 or SB 12, or even dropping down to just your 8x5 waveguide and matching with an 8 inch woofer, especially the Audax or a full ranger with the whizzer removed, and then a solid woofer on the bottom. So many cool options to think through.

If you know you are designing to cross down to sub at 80Hz, are you tempted to just go with the AE TD12M and not worry about the bass you get out of the 2.5-3 cft cab volume?