Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

If you know you are designing to cross down to sub at 80Hz, are you tempted to just go with the AE TD12M and not worry about the bass you get out of the 2.5-3 cft cab volume?

Unless I misunderstood The AE TD12H would go low enough in a 2.5 cft cabinet vented without needing a sub. Why go to the expense of the TD12 if you are crossing to a sub was just my thought. the Deltalite is half the money and I assume will cover from 80-800 Hz just as well?

I don't see any reason not to use another 12" woofer in this design if you don't care for the higher efficiency. The main reason I went with rear mount so it could be fit in without to much trouble.

Dave

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Oh, I follow you now. The DeltaLite was chosen with a sub in mind, but the AE TD12H is for those who want to run without needing subs. Are you still going to pursue both waveguide options, one combo guide for a 3-way design and then a single 12x8 guide for the AST30130 with a 2-way design in mind?

[TN Allen]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

The flat width of the baffle is 12-1/4" wide because of the bevels cut on the baffle. the facets that taper the baffle next to the mid is about 11" wide and the guide is just under 10". To me it's important to keep a nice smooth transition from the guide around to the sides of the baffle to minimize diffraction. Also with crossing in the 600-800 Hz range this guide is wide enough to do the job so anything wider I think will take away since it would cut into my facets.

Dave.

I'll start another thread to ask about the relationship between ~10 " guide width or diameter and wavelength/frequency.

I agree entirely regarding a smooth transition, rather than a bevel, I've been using a 1 3/4" radius to make the transition from the guide to the baffle edge, that is in addition to the guide radius, so the baffle is actually ~19" for a 16" guide.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Oh, I follow you now. The DeltaLite was chosen with a sub in mind, but the AE TD12H is for those who want to run without needing subs. Are you still going to pursue both waveguide options, one combo guide for a 3-way design and then a single 12x8 guide for the AST30130 with a 2-way design in mind?

Correct, once I have a better handle on what I have going I may go down the 12" two way road with the AST30130. Maybe in a 12"x12" guide so it will fit in the same cabinet as the combo waveguide. I think I will do a straight side baffle with a square combo guide at some point. That way they could be put on their side with the guide turned 90 degrees.

Dave

[augerpro]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave definitely consider the Kappalites also, since you are pushing these up into the midrange. They are reasonably priced, and always available (unlike AE much of the time). I prefer the HO over the LF myself. It reportedly has the best midrange, and when it comes to bass I say use EQ or use subs instead of trading off midrange quality.

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

I would agree with the above if targeting the HT crowd, but if you want to attract the studio monitor types, I think the 12" woofer needs to be able to stand alone without a sub. If the TB75 ends up working well down to 600-700 Hz, then there will be plenty of choices and I would recommend giving SB, Scanspeak, and Usher a close look along with the aforementioned AE TD12S or TD12H.

Dave, your thoughts on the possibility of a guide for the AST30130 has me going back to my original dreams of the ultimate 3-way home speaker, which for me is a ribbon/planar/amt tweeter in a waveguide from 1-1.2k and up, a really dynamic 10 or 12 from 120-150 Hz up to the tweeter, like an AE TD10M perhaps, and then a great woofer to handle the rest, like an AE TD15H. That might just be my dream speaker. If you ended up with a complete 2-way design with the AST30130 and the AE TD12S, that would be close enough to be very tempting to go that route and then just build a pair of subs down the road if I felt they were even needed at all. Will be interesting to see how much bass you can get out of your cabinet design once you get further down the road on this.

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Here is the studio monitor commercial competition should you decide to "market" to that crowd at some point:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1037C/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM9Right/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KH310R/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SM300AK/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2030R/

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Rokit103G2/


You would want to "look" like the top few choices, sound better than the bottom few and hang in there with the middle of the group, and come in at a project cost somewhat close to the bottom few or just under the middle of the pack... At least, that is my own theory. I wouldn't have the patience let alone the time and money, but I throw it out there because all the folks that go to Guitar Center every now and then are just as open to DIY as all the folks that go to stereo and home theatre shops, and there are a lot of them...

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Over the last few days I was able to plug away at the second speaker. I went ahead and covered the cabinet with satin laminate and covered the baffle with grill cloth. Hopefully I will get a chance to put the back on and get it hooked up so I can listen to a pair.








I used my light weight cabinet box on these just to try to keep the weight down. some pics of how I made the walls.

Cherry strips ripped to 5/8" x 1" glued to 1/4 birch plywood.


Torch down roofing heated and melted to cab walls.


Rigid fiberglass laid in between the strips


Inner wall made with peg board


bracing made with poplar.



I'll get the crossover tweaked next and post measurements.

Dave

[Greggo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Awesome! Nice work Dave, engineering and design, very impressive.

[henry218]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

so cool

[augerpro]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Freaking gorgeous Dave!!

[Sydney]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

studio monitor

Curious as to their measurement and potential application for studio as well:
In this case - built into bulkhead - only front face exposed.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

I finally took a me day and worked on the crossovers and have them pretty well dialed in.
Crossovers at 750 and 2 kHz.

0-90 Horizontal 1 meter on axis with tweeter 5ms gating 1/48 octave smoothing


Distortion 87 dbs


Distortion 95 dbs this had my house rattling Distortion sweeps seem a lot louder then music at that level.


I may address the extra energy at 1.5 kHz but I'm going to do a lot of listening first. I spent a lot of time listening to the drivers individually with music with crossovers in place. It definitely seems to help a lot in getting them dialed in for me anyway.

I can say this is my best speaker to date.

Dave

[TN Allen]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave,

Do you notice a difference in the clarity of the sound? That individual sounds are easier to pick out?

[Squidspeak]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

I finally took a me day and worked on the crossovers and have them pretty well dialed in.
Crossovers at 750 and 2 kHz.

0-90 Horizontal 1 meter on axis with tweeter 5ms gating 1/48 octave smoothing


Distortion 87 dbs


Distortion 95 dbs this had my house rattling Distortion sweeps seem a lot louder then music at that level.


I may address the extra energy at 1.5 kHz but I'm going to do a lot of listening first. I spent a lot of time listening to the drivers individually with music with crossovers in place. It definitely seems to help a lot in getting them dialed in for me anyway.

I can say this is my best speaker to date.

Dave

Dave, awesome design work. Will you be entering any of the upcoming DIY
events. Also on the torch down roofing material,why the small width on the strips? I have
a similiar product used for flashing that has a PSA, do you think this would give the same
end result as you are getting with your procedure?