Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

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  • Squidspeak
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Originally posted by davepellegrene
    I plan to take these to InDIYana. I wasn't sure if they would be ready but it looks pretty good now. I may go to Dayton with them but I need to see if it interferes with my waterski tournaments this year.

    I only used a small strip on these because I wanted solid contact between the two 1/4" layers so the wall would form a solid structure. I figured if the thin panel would resonate between the bracing the strip would help. It is melted into the wood really well. I think the bond is the most important. I was also trying to keep the weight down. These cabinets are 15"x15"x27" with 1" walls and 2-1/4" thick baffles and weigh in at 50lbs with drivers. I was concerned with the larger woofer with this style of construction but even at high volume there is very little vibration in them. I'm sure it helps not playing much below 60 Hz.

    The product you mention that is used for flashing would work as a viscoelastic layer but it would need to be sandwiched tight with a good bond. I don't think it has enough adhesion on its own. It's designed more for nail penetration and will seal around it to stop water from getting through.

    Dave
    Dave thanks for the info,When I asked about the "thin strip" I was refering to
    the width of the torch down roofing. Why not fill the full space was my thought.
    Thanks Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Originally posted by Squidspeak
    Dave, awesome design work. Will you be entering any of the upcoming DIY
    events. Also on the torch down roofing material,why the small width on the strips? I have
    a similiar product used for flashing that has a PSA, do you think this would give the same
    end result as you are getting with your procedure?
    I plan to take these to InDIYana. I wasn't sure if they would be ready but it looks pretty good now. I may go to Dayton with them but I need to see if it interferes with my waterski tournaments this year.

    I only used a small strip on these because I wanted solid contact between the two 1/4" layers so the wall would form a solid structure. I figured if the thin panel would resonate between the bracing the strip would help. It is melted into the wood really well. I think the bond is the most important. I was also trying to keep the weight down. These cabinets are 15"x15"x27" with 1" walls and 2-1/4" thick baffles and weigh in at 50lbs with drivers. I was concerned with the larger woofer with this style of construction but even at high volume there is very little vibration in them. I'm sure it helps not playing much below 60 Hz.

    The product you mention that is used for flashing would work as a viscoelastic layer but it would need to be sandwiched tight with a good bond. I don't think it has enough adhesion on its own. It's designed more for nail penetration and will seal around it to stop water from getting through.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Originally posted by TN Allen
    Dave,

    Do you notice a difference in the clarity of the sound? That individual sounds are easier to pick out?

    I noticed a lot of things that were improved upon as soon as I started listening. The two you mention are among them. Better instrument separation, more 3D imaging and much more realistic sound. Unfortunately I'm not sure why. Is it the 12" woofer, the double waveguide, the dome mid, the Audax tweeter, the light weight cabinets or the controlled directivity. Probably a mix of all of them. They are also very dynamic. Probably from the high efficiency along with the 12" woofer.

    During my listening to individual drivers I found I was crossing the TB 75 to low with the 11x6 guide. When I would turn up the volume I would hear, hard to explain, but kind of like a megaphone effect. It was an uncomfortable sound. Just raising the the crossover 100 dbs, going stepper on the crossover slope and filling back in with the Deltalite removed it.

    The issue I was having between the Deltalite and the TB75 seems to be a phase issue. I don't quite under stand what was going on but I was getting cancelation above the crossover point. Lowering the slopes on the Deltalite did not get ride of it and raising it would boost above this point before it would the cancellation. The odd thing was PCD was not showing this. It was showing a 3 db boost in that area. When I flipped the polarity the cancellation disappeared. When I flip the polarity in PCD I get a reverse null. I'm now running with all three drivers the same polarity. I originally had the tweeter and mid flipped. I still need to laminate the cabinet so when I open it up I'll check to make sure I didn't switch the polarity on the drivers. Even if I had it should still have matched the FR in PCD just opposite.

    Originally I had the tweeter/ mid crossover at 2.2 kHz and had it as low as 1.8 and the Audax sounded good at hi volume at either spot. It just ended up at 2 kHz.

    I have the speakers toed in just in front of my listening position and I can lean left or right as far as I can, without falling out of my chair, and the image stays stable. Not quite as pin point but pretty descent. The thing I like the most from these speakers is the dynamics. the 12" Deltalite seams much smoother then the 8" B&C that I've worked with. Hard to explain other then it just seems to be a little softer sounding which I like since I'm use to hi fi woofers. The Deltalite plays pretty low but adding a sub makes a big difference. I've been running my Dayton RSS265HF in a 1 sq. ft. Box with a 250 watt dayton plate amp and it seems to be keeping up just fine.

    I have a total 10 parts in the crossover. Two on the woofer, four on the tweeter and four on the mid. I'm running just a one ohm resister before the crossover on the mid and just a 3 ohm resister parallel across the tweeter. I've not tested how loud they will go yet but so far I haven't needed to.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Squidspeak
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Originally posted by davepellegrene
    I finally took a me day and worked on the crossovers and have them pretty well dialed in.
    Crossovers at 750 and 2 kHz.

    0-90 Horizontal 1 meter on axis with tweeter 5ms gating 1/48 octave smoothing


    Distortion 87 dbs


    Distortion 95 dbs this had my house rattling Distortion sweeps seem a lot louder then music at that level.


    I may address the extra energy at 1.5 kHz but I'm going to do a lot of listening first. I spent a lot of time listening to the drivers individually with music with crossovers in place. It definitely seems to help a lot in getting them dialed in for me anyway.

    I can say this is my best speaker to date.

    Dave
    Dave, awesome design work. Will you be entering any of the upcoming DIY
    events. Also on the torch down roofing material,why the small width on the strips? I have
    a similiar product used for flashing that has a PSA, do you think this would give the same
    end result as you are getting with your procedure?

    Leave a comment:


  • TN Allen
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Dave,

    Do you notice a difference in the clarity of the sound? That individual sounds are easier to pick out?

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    I finally took a me day and worked on the crossovers and have them pretty well dialed in.
    Crossovers at 750 and 2 kHz.

    0-90 Horizontal 1 meter on axis with tweeter 5ms gating 1/48 octave smoothing


    Distortion 87 dbs


    Distortion 95 dbs this had my house rattling Distortion sweeps seem a lot louder then music at that level.


    I may address the extra energy at 1.5 kHz but I'm going to do a lot of listening first. I spent a lot of time listening to the drivers individually with music with crossovers in place. It definitely seems to help a lot in getting them dialed in for me anyway.

    I can say this is my best speaker to date.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Sydney
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    studio monitor
    Curious as to their measurement and potential application for studio as well:
    In this case - built into bulkhead - only front face exposed.

    Leave a comment:


  • augerpro
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Freaking gorgeous Dave!!

    Leave a comment:


  • henry218
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    so cool

    Leave a comment:


  • Greggo
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Awesome! Nice work Dave, engineering and design, very impressive.

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Over the last few days I was able to plug away at the second speaker. I went ahead and covered the cabinet with satin laminate and covered the baffle with grill cloth. Hopefully I will get a chance to put the back on and get it hooked up so I can listen to a pair.








    I used my light weight cabinet box on these just to try to keep the weight down. some pics of how I made the walls.

    Cherry strips ripped to 5/8" x 1" glued to 1/4 birch plywood.


    Torch down roofing heated and melted to cab walls.


    Rigid fiberglass laid in between the strips


    Inner wall made with peg board


    bracing made with poplar.



    I'll get the crossover tweaked next and post measurements.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Greggo
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Here is the studio monitor commercial competition should you decide to "market" to that crowd at some point:














    You would want to "look" like the top few choices, sound better than the bottom few and hang in there with the middle of the group, and come in at a project cost somewhat close to the bottom few or just under the middle of the pack... At least, that is my own theory. I wouldn't have the patience let alone the time and money, but I throw it out there because all the folks that go to Guitar Center every now and then are just as open to DIY as all the folks that go to stereo and home theatre shops, and there are a lot of them...

    Leave a comment:


  • Greggo
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    I would agree with the above if targeting the HT crowd, but if you want to attract the studio monitor types, I think the 12" woofer needs to be able to stand alone without a sub. If the TB75 ends up working well down to 600-700 Hz, then there will be plenty of choices and I would recommend giving SB, Scanspeak, and Usher a close look along with the aforementioned AE TD12S or TD12H.

    Dave, your thoughts on the possibility of a guide for the AST30130 has me going back to my original dreams of the ultimate 3-way home speaker, which for me is a ribbon/planar/amt tweeter in a waveguide from 1-1.2k and up, a really dynamic 10 or 12 from 120-150 Hz up to the tweeter, like an AE TD10M perhaps, and then a great woofer to handle the rest, like an AE TD15H. That might just be my dream speaker. If you ended up with a complete 2-way design with the AST30130 and the AE TD12S, that would be close enough to be very tempting to go that route and then just build a pair of subs down the road if I felt they were even needed at all. Will be interesting to see how much bass you can get out of your cabinet design once you get further down the road on this.

    Leave a comment:


  • augerpro
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Dave definitely consider the Kappalites also, since you are pushing these up into the midrange. They are reasonably priced, and always available (unlike AE much of the time). I prefer the HO over the LF myself. It reportedly has the best midrange, and when it comes to bass I say use EQ or use subs instead of trading off midrange quality.

    Leave a comment:


  • davepellegrene
    replied
    Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

    Originally posted by Greggo
    Oh, I follow you now. The DeltaLite was chosen with a sub in mind, but the AE TD12H is for those who want to run without needing subs. Are you still going to pursue both waveguide options, one combo guide for a 3-way design and then a single 12x8 guide for the AST30130 with a 2-way design in mind?
    Correct, once I have a better handle on what I have going I may go down the 12" two way road with the AST30130. Maybe in a 12"x12" guide so it will fit in the same cabinet as the combo waveguide. I think I will do a straight side baffle with a square combo guide at some point. That way they could be put on their side with the guide turned 90 degrees.

    Dave

    Leave a comment:

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