Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

[Samppo]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave, that guide looks fantastic! I recall you are using a minidsp, maybe it could be worth swapping channels & checking settings.

[Juhazi]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

SS combo shows higher distortion around 300Hz than Audax, strange because ther is only 100Hz difference in xo. Audax distortion at 2kHz must be some problem. Run each driver alone to find out what is causing these - it is also possible that woofer/tweeter phase mismatch is causing this. Run also driver pairs WM, WT, MT. I have found LR4 to give better match in a multiway with lots of overlapping in the midrange! Even a small change in delay has effect on distortion around xo.

[andy19191]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave, that guide looks fantastic!

Indeed. The speaker is a lot more to my taste than many. I sometimes wonder what most people think about some of the more ambitious finishes given the understandable reluctance most people have to posting "that looks terrible to my eyes".

It is difficult to tell the angle of coverage from the photos. Are the wall angles nominally 90 degrees by 60 degrees or wider? I can see from the directivity plot you are getting something like 90 degrees horizontal.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave, that guide looks fantastic! I recall you are using a minidsp, maybe it could be worth swapping channels & checking settings.

I only use the DSP for a quick crossover. These measurements are done all passively. I have a dedicated amp for measurements and I have another set up for play back so I'm pretty sure it's not in the signal chain.

I have noticed using the DSP I can only reduce the signal if I try to add gain it will instantly raise the distortion in that area.

Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

SS combo shows higher distortion around 300Hz than Audax, strange because ther is only 100Hz difference in xo. Audax distortion at 2kHz must be some problem. Run each driver alone to find out what is causing these - it is also possible that woofer/tweeter phase mismatch is causing this. Run also driver pairs WM, WT, MT. I have found LR4 to give better match in a multiway with lots of overlapping in the midrange! Even a small change in delay has effect on distortion around xo.

In this D2604 combo I did roll the woofer off a little more because I was trying to reduce the energy around 2 kHz. By doing this it created a dip at 1 kHz which I filled in with more energy from the mid in that area which lowered the crossover from 800 Hz to 700 Hz. My guess is this is the added distortion.

The phase creating the distortion in the Audax is an interesting theory. What's interesting is that in the Audax set up all drivers are positive polarity which I thought was odd. When I flipped the polarity on the mid I got pretty deep nulls. In the D2604 set up the tweeter polarity is switched although the reverse nulls are not as good. I'll work on that over the next week or so.

For now I'll test the Audax on its own to see what's going on with it. I plan on taking these speakers to the InDIYana event at the end of the month so I need to get them finalized. So at this point unless I do not like the D2604 once I get both speakers up and running I will go with them to the event.

Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Indeed. The speaker is a lot more to my taste than many. I sometimes wonder what most people think about some of the more ambitious finishes given the understandable reluctance most people have to posting "that looks terrible to my eyes".

It is difficult to tell the angle of coverage from the photos. Are the wall angles nominally 90 degrees by 60 degrees or wider? I can see from the directivity plot you are getting something like 90 degrees horizontal.

Yes you are pretty close on the angles.

Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

I've finished up the crossovers and buttoned them up over a week ago. I'm getting ready to load them up and head to InDIYana.

Graphs with the D2604, TB75 and Deltalite 2512
Final Crossover











Dave

[Chris Roemer]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Wow. I hope these sound as good as they look like they'd sound.

[isaeagle4031]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Chris they are stunning in person. Sadly I did not get to hear them.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Totally wish to hear those.

Actually I want to build them. Are the waveguides available yet? Final crossover public?

[Thumper Tom]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Iowa, Iowa, Iowa, if you build it, they will come!

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

As usual I got schooled by the room at InDIYana.

At home I had them set up about a foot off the floor in a medium sized room. The bass was ok and adding a sub filled it in nicely. Just before the event I took them up into my living room which sucks the bass out of everything. I sat them directly on the floor and the bass was a bit overwhelming. That was a total surprise. So I was worried they would be bass heavy at InDIYana. The only stands there were about 2' tall so I figured that would be fine and help get the top end back into the room. Yeah, I was wrong they pretty much lacked bottom end all together. On the bright side Jeff B. Said the voicing sounded good. That made me feel pretty good.
The real surprise was that Phil Bamberg (PEB) gave me somewhat of a standing ovation. He said they sounded really good to him. He also suggested outside measurements to better integrate the bass.
I also think Dan Nubecker liked them. He commented that they seemed to have very low distortion. He thought if we put them directly on the ground the bass would have been much better. He also commented that I had them toed in to far for the size of room we were in and thought less toe in would have worked better.
I should also comment that Paul Carmady was sitting front and center so I pointed them directly at him and I think he wanted to get up and run. They were played with the book shelf speakers so they do kind of look like book shelves on steroids. Maybe I should name them the Hulksters.

Anyway, I think they did pretty well for my first attempt. Jeff B. Thought that porting them would help in the bass region but in trade off I would loose sensitivity. I did make a removable rear plate on the back panel that was designed to fit a port if I go that route. My original goal was to cross them at 60-80 Hz to a sub and keep them sealed. I will probably make up a new back plate and test a ported version. I also have a set of AE TD12 S's here to try out. After talking with Jeff he recommended the H version. I'll have to model the S version and see how they will work out. I may just put them back for another day.

Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Totally wish to hear those.

Actually I want to build them. Are the waveguides available yet? Final crossover public?

The guides are available. I just don't have them up on my site yet. I've sent out a square version already that was fit for the XT25 and I have another version going out for another tweeter that I've made a deal which will not be available. It's for a tweeter that is not easily obtainable to the public.
I will send you the crossover but would like it not to become public at the moment.
Just shoot me an email if you are interested.
Pellegreneacoustics at gmail dot com

Dave

[lorenmjones]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

Dave,

I've had a similar experience with a speaker of mine. I brought them up to Joeybutts for a little diy listening session and I felt the bass disappeared. I think it was a variety of factors in that case but it is so strange because the speakers in question have 3 to 6 db cut out by audyssey from 300 hz and down in my room. What a difference a room makes.

As usual I got schooled by the room at InDIYana.

At home I had them set up about a foot off the floor in a medium sized room. The bass was ok and adding a sub filled it in nicely. Just before the event I took them up into my living room which sucks the bass out of everything. I sat them directly on the floor and the bass was a bit overwhelming. That was a total surprise. So I was worried they would be bass heavy at InDIYana. The only stands there were about 2' tall so I figured that would be fine and help get the top end back into the room. Yeah, I was wrong they pretty much lacked bottom end all together. On the bright side Jeff B. Said the voicing sounded good. That made me feel pretty good.
The real surprise was that Phil Bamberg (PEB) gave me somewhat of a standing ovation. He said they sounded really good to him. He also suggested outside measurements to better integrate the bass.
I also think Dan Nubecker liked them. He commented that they seemed to have very low distortion. He thought if we put them directly on the ground the bass would have been much better. He also commented that I had them toed in to far for the size of room we were in and thought less toe in would have worked better.
I should also comment that Paul Carmady was sitting front and center so I pointed them directly at him and I think he wanted to get up and run. They were played with the book shelf speakers so they do kind of look like book shelves on steroids. Maybe I should name them the Hulksters.

Anyway, I think they did pretty well for my first attempt. Jeff B. Thought that porting them would help in the bass region but in trade off I would loose sensitivity. I did make a removable rear plate on the back panel that was designed to fit a port if I go that route. My original goal was to cross them at 60-80 Hz to a sub and keep them sealed. I will probably make up a new back plate and test a ported version. I also have a set of AE TD12 S's here to try out. After talking with Jeff he recommended the H version. I'll have to model the S version and see how they will work out. I may just put them back for another day.

Dave

[dlneubec]

Re: Deltalite II 2512- TB75 1558-AudaxTW25A8 Combo Waveguide

As usual I got schooled by the room at InDIYana.

I also think Dan Nubecker liked them. He commented that they seemed to have very low distortion. He thought if we put them directly on the ground the bass would have been much better. He also commented that I had them toed in to far for the size of room we were in and thought less toe in would have worked better.

After talking with Jeff he recommended the H version. I'll have to model the S version and see how they will work out. I may just put them back for another day.

Dave

Yes, I thought they were very well voiced, with some of the best midrange clarity I heard all day. They just sound low distortion. If they had been lowered to 9" -12" stands the lower bass probably would have filled in nicely. I'm really interested in trying that midrange after hearing your speaker. Jeff and I were talking about how well they might work in a 3way to pair with the RAAL's I won, using the AE TD12H as the woofer. My BaSSlines are gathering dust in storage and I might pull the woofers for a new 3-way.

I agree with Jeff as well and would recommend the TD12H if you are going to buy new.

Have you done any waveguide work with the RAAL 70-10?