Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

After a day's work on the computer...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • After a day's work on the computer...

    ...this is what I have to show for it.



    I'm so bleary-eyed, I can't see straight, but at least it's a start.

    I really can't imagine how many hours you guys who know what you're doing must've spend learning this stuff; it boggles my mind.

    I'm not really even sure what I've done here; I know there's a bunch of stuff wrong with this. I worked a little, watched some tutorial videos, worked a little more...
    I'll revisit it in a few days and see if it makes any more sense to me. Did this in WinPCD BTW.
    Please don't ask to see the phase graphs, the lines in those look like someone dropped a rock on a pane of glass.

    I'm happy I finally got my feet wet with this 'cause I really want to bring my own creation to the 2014 MAF but dang, my head hurts. :o

    TomZ
    Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
    *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

  • #2
    Re: After a day's work on the computer...

    I feel your pain! Been there, done that, gonna do it some more, call it a fun hobby.....
    At least the little squiggly lines look good.

    I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
    "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

    High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
    SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
    My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

    Tangband W6-sub

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: After a day's work on the computer...

      FR looks great, I'd still like to see those phase graphs though. Come back to the designs from time to time and tinker. It'll start to get a more intuitive as to what results changes will have. BTW what drivers are you using?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: After a day's work on the computer...

        Congrats. I just started playing with PCD myself. Lots to learn. You're a lot further along than me . Good luck.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: After a day's work on the computer...

          Originally posted by tomzarbo View Post
          I worked a little, watched some tutorial videos, worked a little more...
          Which videos did you find helpful?
          Copy of Lou C's speaker pages: http://www.rob-elder.com/LouC/speakers.html

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: After a day's work on the computer...

            Originally posted by donradick View Post
            I feel your pain! Been there, done that, gonna do it some more, call it a fun hobby.....
            At least the little squiggly lines look good.
            Pain is a good word to use. After dinner and a little break I feel a bit better, at least I don't want to throw my laptop out of the window anymore.

            Originally posted by Ryan_M View Post
            FR looks great, I'd still like to see those phase graphs though. Come back to the designs from time to time and tinker. It'll start to get a more intuitive as to what results changes will have. BTW what drivers are you using?
            Wise guy, huh? I'm tinkering with the DS drivers, an 8" and two passives for the bass line and the 5" for a mid, and for now a ND20 tweeter until I can get FRD and ZMA files for the ND28F-6 which I haven't been able to locate yet. I think it's incredible how when you make changes in the value fields of the crossover components, the graph changes instantly. A lot better than X-Over Pro I'll tell you.

            Well, you asked for it: :eek:


            Originally posted by lowpolyjoe View Post
            Congrats. I just started playing with PCD myself. Lots to learn. You're a lot further along than me . Good luck.
            It seems to be an amazingly powerful program, doesn't it? It will take a knucklehead like me a bit of time to get this down, but we start with baby steps, right? Keep at it joe, I will as well. I was fortunate to have a snow day today from school so I had a lot of hours right in a row to immerse myself in it. It's hard for me to gather much momentum with just an hour or so to work with it.

            Originally posted by relder View Post
            Which videos did you find helpful?
            Johnny Richards made a very good video of PCD. Here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v73tkc8byw...titled%208.avi
            He posted about it on this thread: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=videos

            I've watched it a bunch of times and every time a little bit more sinks in; but really, I have to just start playing with it as much as I can to get familiar with it. I've also been reading and re-reading Speaker Building 201 by Ray Alden, it covers basic concepts very well... I just ignore the troublesome math portions.

            Also Dave (DLR) has some videos of WinPCD up on the Meniscus site under 'video lessons.'
            http://www.speakerdesign.net/WinPCD/index.htm
            Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
            *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: After a day's work on the computer...

              Just a WAG, but try a smaller value coil, and a larger value cap on the mid lowpass to raise the output of the mid in the 2k to 3k range, and create a sharper knee in the rolloff. I'd probably lower the mid / woofer x-over point to 400 hz too, but what you have there looks good.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                I'd spend a little more time on the mid/tweet XO. You've got a summation that undercuts the tweeter response which means your phase tracking is a bit off. Try a bit steeper slope on the mid.
                R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                  i'll get there some day.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                    Forgot to mention that the mid and tweeter are rev. polarity.
                    Thanks for the ideas rpb and Pete. I'll fiddle some more.

                    TomZ
                    Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                    *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                      I like what you're doing, a 3-way is challenging and you'll learn a lot.

                      I suggest that you think more about your crossover points and go bigger
                      on the woofer since you might as well have the output and extension if
                      you are going to pay for the extra cost in a 3-way. A 3-way provides the
                      option of using a true midrange with minimal breakup in the operating
                      range unlike mid woofers that are just small woofers.
                      If your intention is to have in-phase crossovers then they will be -6 dB at
                      the crossover. Your woofer is so high and tweeter so shallow that they are
                      both contributing a good amount at about 1.5 -2K and therefore you never
                      need the full output from the midrange.
                      Did you have a particular layout or another system in mind that you'd like
                      to model the design after?
                      I like the PSB Stratus Golds, might give you some ideas:
                      http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/704

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                        with pcd Ill get the files loaded and offsets entered and then save it. Reload the file and go nuts. If it all goes to hell, Ill reload the saved file and try again. maybe Third order instead of 2nd. maybe the padding before the crossover instead of after. maybe split for and aft. at this point you just want to play until you have some ah-ha moments. when it goes to hell, clear it out and reload the saved file and try some more. don't over think it. Don't decide before hand where the xovers have to be.. let the drivers talk to you.
                        " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

                        Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
                        Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

                        http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
                        http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                          Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                          with pcd Ill get the files loaded and offsets entered and then save it. Reload the file and go nuts. If it all goes to hell, Ill reload the saved file and try again. maybe Third order instead of 2nd. maybe the padding before the crossover instead of after. maybe split for and aft. at this point you just want to play until you have some ah-ha moments. when it goes to hell, clear it out and reload the saved file and try some more. don't over think it. Don't decide before hand where the xovers have to be.. let the drivers talk to you.
                          Good advice that is.
                          Darn- I sound like Yoda....
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                            The biggest question with any three way is what does your impedance look like?
                            It is estimated that one percent of the general population are psychopaths - New Criminologist: Understanding Psychopaths

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: After a day's work on the computer...

                              Originally posted by Pete Basel View Post
                              I like what you're doing, a 3-way is challenging and you'll learn a lot.

                              I suggest that you think more about your crossover points and go bigger
                              on the woofer since you might as well have the output and extension if
                              you are going to pay for the extra cost in a 3-way. A 3-way provides the
                              option of using a true midrange with minimal breakup in the operating
                              range unlike mid woofers that are just small woofers.
                              If your intention is to have in-phase crossovers then they will be -6 dB at
                              the crossover. Your woofer is so high and tweeter so shallow that they are
                              both contributing a good amount at about 1.5 -2K and therefore you never
                              need the full output from the midrange.
                              Did you have a particular layout or another system in mind that you'd like
                              to model the design after?
                              I like the PSB Stratus Golds, might give you some ideas:
                              http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/704
                              Pete, by "bigger" on the woofer, do you mean larger size, or larger (higher) crossover point? This alignment should reach almost 101 db at 30 Hz while barely breaching X-Max, while keeping a specific 'aesthetic' that I'm going for in this particular design. I sort of already have a vision of what I would roughly like this design to look like, so I'm trying to keep within that 'look' if possible.

                              I see what you mean about the midrange situation. I think some of my problem is that I'm trying to 'tweak' this too much to make up for the fact that the mid is several db less efficient than the woofer, and I know I should not pad the woofer. I will look at a few dedicated mid-range drivers to see if they are a better match. Trouble is finding the files for some of these things. Thanks for the link to the PSB Stratus Gold speakers, I read the info, but I'll look it over more later.

                              Originally posted by [email protected].com View Post
                              with pcd Ill get the files loaded and offsets entered and then save it. Reload the file and go nuts. If it all goes to hell, Ill reload the saved file and try again. maybe Third order instead of 2nd. maybe the padding before the crossover instead of after. maybe split for and aft. at this point you just want to play until you have some ah-ha moments. when it goes to hell, clear it out and reload the saved file and try some more. don't over think it. Don't decide before hand where the xovers have to be.. let the drivers talk to you.
                              Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                              Good advice that is.
                              Darn- I sound like Yoda....
                              Wolf
                              Thanks for that tip. That will save me a bunch of time and trouble. Let the drivers talk to you, got it. I can see this process being an awful lot of fun once you know how things work.

                              Thankful, I am.

                              Originally posted by mattk View Post
                              The biggest question with any three way is what does your impedance look like?
                              I'll try to post that up tonight, but I've changed things since I posted the above, so...

                              Thanks everyone,
                              TomZ
                              Zarbo Audio Projects Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEZ...aFQSTl6NdOwgxQ * 320-641 Amp Review Youtube: https://youtu.be/ugjfcI5p6m0 *Veneering curves, seams, using heat-lock iron on method *Trimming veneer & tips *Curved Sides glue-up video
                              *Part 2 *Gluing multiple curved laminations of HDF

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X