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Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

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  • #61
    Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

    Originally posted by J Fallows View Post
    I would expect that Sample 3 will be in the "pretty nice midrange" territory now. Tweeter mandatory.
    Don't break out the Elmer's just yet...



    Blue is raw cone, Red is wood glue

    There is a bit of peak suppression, but the bad news is that the only distortion that improved is 2nd order. All other distortions were slightly worse than stock at all frequencies. Sound quality is unpleasant.

    FS dropped from 115 to 114 and Qes stayed the same. Interesting that Qms increased from 4.59 to 6.18. This Qms increase was not seen in any other damping method.

    I would think that you would want a more brittle glue to stiffen the cone. I was actually hoping for a more pronounced break-up, knowing I could get rid of it later with slits. Maybe a superglue-coated cone?
    "Looks like you may have to design your own speakers. Its not that hard." -DE Focht

    Diffraction Happens

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    • #62
      Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

      Put that driver in the sun to bake. If you want to stiffen use lacquer or shellac but it will take some time to fully cure. You could always use an ultra hold hairspray and a blow dryer for quick results.
      Caleb b

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      • #63
        Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

        Originally posted by jbruner View Post
        Don't break out the Elmer's just yet...



        Blue is raw cone, Red is wood glue

        There is a bit of peak suppression, but the bad news is that the only distortion that improved is 2nd order. All other distortions were slightly worse than stock at all frequencies. Sound quality is unpleasant.

        FS dropped from 115 to 114 and Qes stayed the same. Interesting that Qms increased from 4.59 to 6.18. This Qms increase was not seen in any other damping method.

        I would think that you would want a more brittle glue to stiffen the cone. I was actually hoping for a more pronounced break-up, knowing I could get rid of it later with slits. Maybe a superglue-coated cone?
        The old methods that came out of the NSB threads were a 1/4" hole in the cone, and coating the cone in a lacquer-clear- for the SIMPLE ones anyway.
        Some people slit the spider too....
        Later,
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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        • #64
          Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

          Originally posted by caleb View Post
          I doubt the thick stripes of flexible glue will be nearly as effective as the slits.
          Yeah, 3dB of break-up suppression doesn't compare to the slit samples that both supplied 11dB down.

          The worse news is that instead of enabling me to listen through to the music, the stripes veiled the sound so heavily that it sounded like it was in thick mud, totally ruining the pace, rhythm and timing.

          Sample 4 is now garbage.




          Blue is original, Green is edge only, Red is stripes and edge glued.

          "Looks like you may have to design your own speakers. Its not that hard." -DE Focht

          Diffraction Happens

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

            I probably need to stop at this point and clarify my intentions.

            I do not intend to try every questionable method of driver modification. I am willing to humor your suggestions because I love you all so much I just want to scratch you behind the ears, but the next phase will focus on proven methods of actual improvement. I've done mass dots, paint, coatings, and holes in the dust cap. Usually those things create more problems than they fix.

            I wanted to find out if the well-known slit-cone method had any drawbacks. Could you damp the out-of band resonances without hurting the Clarity, Liveliness, Immediacy, Transparency?

            Why, yes, Yes you can!

            So the bottom line here is that the 2 slit samples are listenable. I have actually been playing them for days. That is the true test-can you stand to listen to it. I cannot tolerate the stock speaker or the 2 coated samples. I'm sure the slit samples will provide for much easier crossover design, too.
            "Looks like you may have to design your own speakers. Its not that hard." -DE Focht

            Diffraction Happens

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

              I thought that you were going to wait until tomorrow to sink my battleship.
              Anyhow, it's really interesting to see the test results.
              Nice work and Thanks.
              “The rocket worked perfectly except for landing on the wrong planet.”
              ― Wernher von Braun

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              • #67
                Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                Since the slit cone has such a huge affect I would think the compound used to seal the slit back up would also have a huge affect. I would shoot for something that gets hard but stays flexible. Iwouldn't think a compound that stretches easily would work well as the slits would try to seperate and cause the cone to deform under stress.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                  Originally posted by jbruner View Post
                  I probably need to stop at this point and clarify my intentions.

                  I do not intend to try every questionable method of driver modification. I am willing to humor your suggestions because I love you all so much I just want to scratch you behind the ears, but the next phase will focus on proven methods of actual improvement. I've done mass dots, paint, coatings, and holes in the dust cap. Usually those things create more problems than they fix.

                  I wanted to find out if the well-known slit-cone method had any drawbacks. Could you damp the out-of band resonances without hurting the Clarity, Liveliness, Immediacy, Transparency?

                  Why, yes, Yes you can!

                  So the bottom line here is that the 2 slit samples are listenable. I have actually been playing them for days. That is the true test-can you stand to listen to it. I cannot tolerate the stock speaker or the 2 coated samples. I'm sure the slit samples will provide for much easier crossover design, too.
                  Well, you certainly made my little doggy head tilt and tail wag. I look forward to seeing your other tests. I have a few extras of these you can have if you need them to complete your testing.
                  "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
                  ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                    Like vulcanized CA glue...

                    Originally posted by killa View Post
                    Since the slit cone has such a huge affect I would think the compound used to seal the slit back up would also have a huge affect. I would shoot for something that gets hard but stays flexible. Iwouldn't think a compound that stretches easily would work well as the slits would try to seperate and cause the cone to deform under stress.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                      Originally posted by killa View Post
                      Since the slit cone has such a huge affect I would think the compound used to seal the slit back up would also have a huge affect. I would shoot for something that gets hard but stays flexible. Iwouldn't think a compound that stretches easily would work well as the slits would try to seperate and cause the cone to deform under stress.
                      Yes, my suggestion for this is sold by PE, "The Wet Look", what I've used in my testing. I believe it to be the same compound as (or very similar to) what is used by driver manufacturers when they apply an application to the diaphragm/surround interface.

                      dlr
                      WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

                      Dave's Speaker Pages

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                      • #71
                        Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                        Originally posted by killa View Post
                        I am willing to bet the revelators would still be smooth without the slits. Perhaps in the case of the revalators it is a marketing tactic to drive up the price :eek: While they are great drivers the slit cone may not be the reason. If it is these slits might also improve the seas driver.
                        I'd take that bet. I'd say they are definitely smoothed by the slits.

                        Compare the 4db peak on the slit Revelator

                        Click image for larger version

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                        to the 10dB break-up on the state-of-the-art non-slit Illuminator

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                        "Looks like you may have to design your own speakers. Its not that hard." -DE Focht

                        Diffraction Happens

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                          How about trying a copper pole piece?

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                          • #73
                            Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                            Originally posted by fatmarley View Post
                            How about trying a copper pole piece?
                            That would be great if you mean a copper-clad pole piece.
                            However, I put a penny on the pole piece of sample 3 and measured.

                            Blue is original, red is penny


                            Inductance @10k dropped from .229 to .212 -this was very consistent.
                            Frequency response was essentially unchanged. Distortion was pretty much the same except for 3rd and 5th order which saw one or two dB improvement.
                            "Looks like you may have to design your own speakers. Its not that hard." -DE Focht

                            Diffraction Happens

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                              There isn't much copper in a penny these days :p

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                              • #75
                                Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

                                yeah. get a brass or copper washer

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