Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

[jbruner]

Re: NS6-ed

So now take an unmodified driver, build a contour filter to make the response match that of your modified driver and compare. That would be the "is all this mucking about worth it or should I just design a proper crossover" test. At the very least apply a 2nd order filter at 2.5kHz on both modified and unmodified driver to see how the distortion compares in a real world application.

Please Understand, Simply Satisfying You Won't Help Inform People Perceiving Every Distortion

[killa]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

I often wonder why the human ear, isnt the sound test tool of choice. It is in my world

My science based designs should easily best your ear designs from what I have read. Even people who are good at working up a xo by ear tend to use a little science to help. Jbruner is associating what he hears to his measurements for example.

[mzisserson]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

My science based designs should easily best your ear designs from what I have read. Even people who are good at working up a xo by ear tend to use a little science to help. Jbruner is associating what he hears to his measurements for example.

I agree with this.

But I don't think that darren should be written off, either. I have studied the science for 20 years now, honed in the correlations between what you see and what you hear. Worked extensively at (As Toole states) finsing what is meaningful measurably and what is measurably meaningful. The final step in my process is voicing, no matter how perfect I get them on paper, and no matter how well my paper results match my measured performance. This does not always yeild a technically perfect picture. The largest things, however is that it is always *close* to technically perfect. It has to be in several measurable domains or you will end up with audible issues regardless of the overall response.

[killa]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

I agree with this.

But I don't think that darren should be written off, either. I have studied the science for 20 years now, honed in the correlations between what you see and what you hear. Worked extensively at (As Toole states) finsing what is meaningful measurably and what is measurably meaningful. The final step in my process is voicing, no matter how perfect I get them on paper, and no matter how well my paper results match my measured performance. This does not always yeild a technically perfect picture. The largest things, however is that it is always *close* to technically perfect. It has to be in several measurable domains or you will end up with audible issues regardless of the overall response.

I agree 100% There is one issue in this though (certain build threads make this very clear IMO). The ear used to listen must be trained or well experienced with decent references. Some people have never heard a proper design so a simulated xo will get them much closer than their ears could. Of course this may not always be the case. There is always the exception.

[mzisserson]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

I agree 100% There is one issue in this though (certain build threads make this very clear IMO). The ear used to listen must be trained or well experienced with decent references. Some people have never heard a proper design so a simulated xo will get them much closer than there ears could. Of course this may not always be the case. There is always the exception.

Yes, true. A lot of us grew up around music as well, un-amplified instruments, and know what a Marshall 6l6 tube driven 12x2 cab sounds like in the flesh. FOr beginners who do not have a strong point of reference, then I agree. However if you dont have a strong point of reference, get your **** out there and get one!

[winslow]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

You have a Marshall combo with 12 2" speakers? I bet that sounds...um, not amazing... But can't say that I've heard of or see too many Marshalls with 6L6s either. Most were EL34s, 5881s, or some 6550.

[Mark65]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

It's a driver evaluation. My opinion is that the driver sucks. I showed measurements that partially reveal why. It's obvious that someone would try to deal with it's flaws when designing a system. But the driver offers no low bass, poorly defined mid-bass and garbled mids. It's a lousy woofer that has to be crossed at 1500hz to avoid that 3rd order distortion. Doesn't sound very useable to me. Very Astute, Great Intelligence Never Assumes.

Please Understand, Simply Satisfying You Won't Help Inform People Perceiving Every Distortion

Not sure why nobody noticed what you did here, and here, but I did, and I'm still laughing:D:D. I'll be randomly giggling at work for at least a few days, nicely done my friend!


Mark

[Tin_Ears]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

Ha ha... I missed those!! :D

[Paul Carmody]

Re: NS6-ed

Please Understand, Simply Satisfying You Won't Help Inform People Perceiving Every Distortion

jbruner has earned himself 10,000 internets

[fatmarley]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

Not sure why nobody noticed what you did here, and here, but I did, and I'm still laughing:D:D. I'll be randomly giggling at work for at least a few days, nicely done my friend!


Mark

Well, I was on holiday so that's why I didn't notice. Very funny

[jbruner]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

Oh my... what have you gotten yourself into??:eek::D

The current slit experiment started for me well over a decade ago and has produced 6 viable samples.
Regular practice has improved my slit technique over the years.
Although I am committed to the current process, I sometimes think about trying a narrower slit.
Problems with the samples complicate an already difficult study.
Perhaps I need to take up drinking.
Everyone has to follow their own path.
Don't give up on your dreams.

[fatmarley]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

I think you should try some silicone around the pole piece on the driver that had the dust cap removed.

As I said Mr Royd Audio used to modify his drivers and I think it's well worth having a look at his most popular speakers because they are still very highly regarded today (for good reason). If you look at THIS site you can see close-ups of the drivers. I know the Sorcerers (not SE) and Minstrel were very popular. It looks like he used something like clear silicone where the dust cap used to be but it was put on uneven for some reason.

[dlr]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

The current slit experiment started for me well over a decade ago and has produced 6 viable samples.
Regular practice has improved my slit technique over the years.
Although I am committed to the current process, I sometimes think about trying a narrower slit.
Problems with the samples complicate an already difficult study.
Perhaps I need to take up drinking.
Everyone has to follow their own path.
Don't give up on your dreams.

I suspect that the SS drivers are not just "slits". The best result may well come from taking out a tiny "slot", then filling in with the damping compound. This should be a method to introduce a complete break at that slot. Inspecting my SS 15w drivers, it appears to be a full 1mm gap that is then filled in from behind, leaving it smooth and less obtrusive on the front.

dlr

[killa]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

I suspect that the SS drivers are not just "slits". The best result may well come from taking out a tiny "slot", then filling in with the damping compound. This should be a method to introduce a complete break at that slot. Inspecting my SS 15w drivers, it appears to be a full 1mm gap that is then filled in from behind, leaving it smooth and less obtrusive on the front.

dlr

Could you try to describe the compound they used?

[Mark65]

Re: Scan-Speek 4" for 49 cents?

The current slit experiment started for me well over a decade ago and has produced 6 viable samples.
Regular practice has improved my slit technique over the years.
Although I am committed to the current process, I sometimes think about trying a narrower slit.
Problems with the samples complicate an already difficult study.
Perhaps I need to take up drinking.
Everyone has to follow their own path.
Don't give up on your dreams.

OMG, he did it again, and I missed it the first time I read the post.:eek::D

jbruner, you rule.:applause:


Mark