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  • What to do with those new TB mini subs...

    I was playing around with modeling those new TB 3.5" and 4.5" flat panel micro-subwoofers and thought I'd share in case anyone was looking for a way to use them.

    http://www.parts-express.com/cat/sub...%5D&PortalID=1

    I modeled both in a 10"x10"x5" box out of 1/2" material (about 5L after drivers) with the Dayton Audio 8" passive radiator using Jeff Bagby's Woofer Box and Circuit Designer. Here are the results of the two with an 80hz low-pass and 18hz high-pass (3.5" in gray at 30 watts, 4.5" in black at 50 watts):

    Click image for larger version

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    Response is essentially the same for both, just more output with the 4.5":

    F3: 24.48 Hz
    F6: 22.74 Hz
    F10: 20.73 Hz


    This is with 350 grams of added mass on the passive for either.

    For the 3.5, here is the excursion with 30 watts.

    Click image for larger version

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    Here is the 4.5 with 50 watts.

    Click image for larger version

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    I think these would probably make pretty good desktop subs or maybe a bedroom sub if you aren't going crazy with the level watching movies. For the 3.5, you could probably use the Dayton SA25 which comes out to about $98 in parts. For the 4.5, I would probably go with the SA70, so you would be looking at a decent amount more, since the 4.5 is already about $20 more than the 3.5. Totatl would be about $145 if you went this route.

    Obviously there are probably better options for the money out there but these things can get surprisingly low, and if you just want a small desktop sub, the 3.5" should work pretty well and would be pretty modestly priced.
    -Kerry

  • #2
    Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

    If they were 1/2 that price they'd be worth IMO, but you can get a cheap 10" sub in a slightly larger box for about the same cost, more output and deeper as well. I guess it would be good to have on a desktop, though.

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    • #3
      Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

      How much trade off is there per decrease in size? ie. if you go 50-75% that size enclosure how much do you lose?

      I dig this for the neato factor.
      Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

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      • #4
        Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

        Originally posted by greywarden View Post
        If they were 1/2 that price they'd be worth IMO, but you can get a cheap 10" sub in a slightly larger box for about the same cost, more output and deeper as well. I guess it would be good to have on a desktop, though.
        I'd say more like 1/4 or less. What are we gaining other than kewl factor and extremely limited low-end?
        "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
        ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

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        • #5
          Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

          Cool factor is sometimes just what you want. Like to see/hear one in action.
          If dynamite was dangerous, do you think they'd sell it to an idiot like me?

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          • #6
            Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

            Originally posted by the kid View Post
            Cool factor is sometimes just what you want. Like to see/hear one in action.
            Granted... and if that's the case then go for it. If cost vs. performance is any issue at all... not so much.
            "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
            ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

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            • #7
              Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

              Originally posted by joeybutts View Post
              How much trade off is there per decrease in size? ie. if you go 50-75% that size enclosure how much do you lose?

              I dig this for the neato factor.
              I don't think there is any way to make it physically smaller with the size of the passive. If there was, it actually likes a smaller box a little better in terms of excursion.
              -Kerry

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              • #8
                Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                IIRC, the 8" Dayton PR is limited to ~200g or 250g of added mass before it can't hold it. I don't think this model is a good idea as a result of that. They used to list/post the maximum added-mass for these, but I can't find them anymore....
                I know the capabilities are supposed to increase as PR diameter increases, FWIW.

                Later,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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                • #9
                  Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                  Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                  IIRC, the 8" Dayton PR is limited to ~200g or 250g of added mass before it can't hold it. I don't think this model is a good idea as a result of that. They used to list/post the maximum added-mass for these, but I can't find them anymore....
                  I know the capabilities are supposed to increase as PR diameter increases, FWIW.

                  Later,
                  Wolf
                  I thought that jsr used 600g in the Digger 8. I could be wrong though.

                  EDIT: Looks like he used the 12" with 575g. Not sure what the 8" will do.
                  -Kerry

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                  • #10
                    Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                    Max added mass for the Dayton PRs is roughly 3x the cone mass. You'd have to test to see how the suspension handles it.
                    Regarding these little subs, I think they're pretty neat and unique. Even though larger ones would be louder, most don't extend as low as these little guys. Sure they might have more output at 25Hz but it's usually a good bit down from the rest of the frequency response and I personally don't like it when subs are considerably louder at higher frequencies than low ones that I'm still interested In hearing.
                    Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
                    Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
                    Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
                    Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
                    Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

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                    • #11
                      Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                      It looks to me like these mini-subs are best suited to "sound-bar" systems or console-style bluetooth/docking speakers where a separate subwoofer is not desired but improved bass extension is an imperative. Another interesting use would be in automotive sound to add bass in areas where typically you can't fit a high-performing subwoofer, like under the passenger seat. Use in multiples would overcome the output disadvantage due to size.
                      Best Regards,

                      Rory Buszka
                      Product Manager, Dayton Audio

                      The best way to predict the future is to create it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        IIRC, the 8" Dayton PR is limited to ~200g or 250g of added mass before it can't hold it. I don't think this model is a good idea as a result of that. They used to list/post the maximum added-mass for these, but I can't find them anymore....
                        I know the capabilities are supposed to increase as PR diameter increases, FWIW.

                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        I remodeled with 250g in case you can't add more than that. It raises everything by about 4 Hz.
                        -Kerry

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                          Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
                          I remodeled with 250g in case you can't add more than that. It raises everything by about 4 Hz.
                          I'd call that negligible....
                          Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                            Originally posted by joeybutts View Post
                            I'd call that negligible....
                            Yeah- no need to add that much for 4 Hz.
                            Wolf
                            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                            *InDIYana event website*

                            Photobucket pages:
                            https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What to do with those new TB mini subs...

                              Interesting idea - would probably tuck behind a flat panel monitor in a lot of desktop setups. Output is pretty good - 9mm xmax on an 8" PR is equivalent to a single sealed RSS210, and I've used a couple of those for very satisfying output in a conventional room for music playback.

                              In 5L the other viable idea would probably be to use a car sub and LT it with some extra power. This would need more power and eq capability though, which would likely drive the price up beyond the TB implementation.

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