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Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

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  • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

    Yup Joey,

    I saw that. I'd love to hear them sometime anyway.

    Originally posted by joeybutts View Post
    Just want to be clear Loren, since I saw you posted the 6fe200, I have the 8fe200.
    Loren Jones

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

    Comment


    • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

      Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
      Well at this point I think we are starting to get close to nailing some things down.

      Box -- something like 15 x 42" baffle with depth as needed for desired volume. Target 100L give or take for volume.

      Moderate sensitivity, moderate LF extension, relatively high output capability, 8 ohm friendly.

      Drivers -- certainly still some room for discussion but these three seem like solid choices that will get us where we want to go. I'm pretty certain we have hashed out the woofer discussion quite a bit but feel free to mention others. Open question regarding the mid is with a 92db woofer and the planned baffle and crossover (around 300) how much sensitivity do we need the mid to have? This may open up more choices for a mid. There are several tweeters that could work, but the DX25 is pretty well respected and has all the sensitivity and output we could want for this.

      http://www.parts-express.com/vifa-dx...eter--264-1020

      http://www.parts-express.com/faitalp...-ohm--294-1151

      http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...oofer--295-120
      I think that you have come up with a reasonably priced winning combination here!
      “I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet”

      If we all did the things we are capable of doing, we would literally ASTOUND ourselves - Thomas A. Edison

      Some people collect stamps, Imelda Marcos collected shoes. I collect speakers.:D

      Comment


      • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

        Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
        Box -- something like 15 x 42" baffle with depth as needed for desired volume. Target 100L give or take for volume.
        That is not the shape of a monitor. A monitor would be shorter with a height of 30" or so as illustrated in the pictures above. The specified driver doesn't need 100 litres. 70-80 litres will lose a few Hz at the bottom end in exchange for a more manageable cabinet for lugging around.

        Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
        Moderate sensitivity, moderate LF extension, relatively high output capability, 8 ohm friendly.
        With care the sensitivity could be 92 dB or so which is not moderate for home audio.

        You have specified a 4 ohm tweeter which does not look particularly 8 ohm friendly. A speaker that is sensitive and 8 ohm friendly can be driven by pretty anything such as cheap consumer audio, valve amplifiers, etc...

        Comment


        • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

          Would seem to me, with the ST305 that you'll be looking more toward 85-86 dB on the mid. Maybe 87 with steeper xo's. That's usually in the 5 to 5.25 size but there are some 4 inchers that get there. An interesting one is the Vifa NE123 that also has decent power handling but it's getting a bit expensive for this.

          Comment


          • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

            Andy, the 4 ohm mid and tweeter should give a "real world" impedance of about 6 ohms, probably never dipping to 4 ohms but at the XO freq from the mid to the tweeter. This is marketed as an "8 ohm" speaker commercially all the time, or 6 ohm if the maker is exceedingly honest. The oooold 15" two-way Bozak's were a very wobbly 8 ohm and maybe 88 dB, and driven by 20 watt McIntosh Monoblock tubes 40 years ago. The 15" Altec Santana II's were about 3 dB hotter and were "state-of-the-art" circa 1971 or so. They should have been: A pair cost as much as a new Honda 650 car! Of course they wouldn't fit into the 650 hatch back either...;)

            Comment


            • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

              Originally posted by Whitneyville1 View Post
              Andy, the 4 ohm mid and tweeter should give a "real world" impedance of about 6 ohms, probably never dipping to 4 ohms but at the XO freq from the mid to the tweeter.
              The woofer and mid are 8 ohm. The tweeter does not need to be 4 ohm and I had assumed this was an oversight to be corrected by selecting an alternative 6 or 8 ohm tweeter rather than an oversight to be corrected by working up some supportive marketing! There is even an 8 ohm, 100W version of the originally specified Vifa tweeter on the Tymphany website although the resonant frequency looks a bit high.

              Comment


              • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                Originally posted by andy19191 View Post
                That is not the shape of a monitor. A monitor would be shorter with a height of 30" or so as illustrated in the pictures above. The specified driver doesn't need 100 litres. 70-80 litres will lose a few Hz at the bottom end in exchange for a more manageable cabinet for lugging around.


                With care the sensitivity could be 92 dB or so which is not moderate for home audio.

                You have specified a 4 ohm tweeter which does not look particularly 8 ohm friendly. A speaker that is sensitive and 8 ohm friendly can be driven by pretty anything such as cheap consumer audio, valve amplifiers, etc...
                As far as the shape, I had never envisioned anything that would be a portable monitor. My intent (and I think the overall consensus) was to build something that would be placed in a living room and stay there. Perhaps they would get drug out to the patio for a party in the back yard, but that was all I had in mind for portability.

                As far as the tweeter impedance goes I am no crossover designer so I could be wrong, but my thought was that the very sensitive tweeter would have some series resistance in front of it anyway and so would be unlikely to really present a 4 ohm load to any amplifier. I could be wrong on this as well, but I was thinking that a little lower impedance at tweeter frequencies would be less of a problem for even more anemic home audio gear. As far as valve amps, I doubt that the average guy who would build a speaker like this would be using a valve amp, but I could be wrong. With that said, I am not attached to the tweeter. I chose it for a decent looking FR, good sensitivity, good power handling and good price but I am open to other choices for sure.

                Originally posted by ngjockey View Post
                Would seem to me, with the ST305 that you'll be looking more toward 85-86 dB on the mid. Maybe 87 with steeper xo's. That's usually in the 5 to 5.25 size but there are some 4 inchers that get there. An interesting one is the Vifa NE123 that also has decent power handling but it's getting a bit expensive for this.
                I need help here. I am thinking final sensitivity for 2.83v input will likely end up around 90-91 db with this woofer used in a 3 way especially if it is used close to the floor. I could be totally wrong here however. I found very few non-prosound 5" that would hit that level and only a couple non-prosound 6" that would do it. However if you are correct and final sensitivity ends up around 86 and all the BSC that is needed is done in the woofer's passband then we would have the option to look at many nice hifi mids that are less sensitive but are still in our price range.

                Calling people that know what they are talking about on this bit re: sensitivity.

                Originally posted by Whitneyville1 View Post
                Andy, the 4 ohm mid and tweeter should give a "real world" impedance of about 6 ohms, probably never dipping to 4 ohms but at the XO freq from the mid to the tweeter. This is marketed as an "8 ohm" speaker commercially all the time, or 6 ohm if the maker is exceedingly honest. The oooold 15" two-way Bozak's were a very wobbly 8 ohm and maybe 88 dB, and driven by 20 watt McIntosh Monoblock tubes 40 years ago. The 15" Altec Santana II's were about 3 dB hotter and were "state-of-the-art" circa 1971 or so. They should have been: A pair cost as much as a new Honda 650 car! Of course they wouldn't fit into the 650 hatch back either...;)
                This was some of my thinking on the tweeter choice, but again, I am open to others.

                Originally posted by andy19191 View Post
                The woofer and mid are 8 ohm. The tweeter does not need to be 4 ohm and I had assumed this was an oversight to be corrected by selecting an alternative 6 or 8 ohm tweeter rather than an oversight to be corrected by working up some supportive marketing! There is even an 8 ohm, 100W version of the originally specified Vifa tweeter on the Tymphany website although the resonant frequency looks a bit high.
                Have you seen the 8 ohm DXT tweeter for sale anywhere, or just at the Tymphany website. I didn't see it at PE or Madisound...
                Loren Jones

                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                Comment


                • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                  JBL100ts. Had a pair stolen long ago. This project would be about their size. They were impressive speakers.
                  Attached Files

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                  • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                    Originally posted by djg View Post
                    JBL100ts. Had a pair stolen long ago. This project would be about their size. They were impressive speakers.
                    Yes they are even by today's standards. I think we've gotten away from what sound good to what's cutting edge, compact and convenient. Small woofer two ways just don't cut the mustard for me except at my desktop. Again, big woofers do bass sooooo much better!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                      That is exactly what I have in mind. Very cool speakers!

                      Originally posted by djg View Post
                      JBL100ts. Had a pair stolen long ago. This project would be about their size. They were impressive speakers.
                      Loren Jones

                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                      Comment


                      • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                        I agree totally. I formerly for the last 10 years or so had sub sat systems with decent DIY 2 ways. When I got my "malleus" finished with the 15" woofer I was shocked at how much more real upright bass in jazz and double bass in classical sounded. It is just a presentation that I like better.

                        Originally posted by Mayhem13 View Post
                        Yes they are even by today's standards. I think we've gotten away from what sound good to what's cutting edge, compact and convenient. Small woofer two ways just don't cut the mustard for me except at my desktop. Again, big woofers do bass sooooo much better!
                        Loren Jones

                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                        Comment


                        • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                          Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
                          As far as the shape, I had never envisioned anything that would be a portable monitor. My intent (and I think the overall consensus) was to build something that would be placed in a living room and stay there. Perhaps they would get drug out to the patio for a party in the back yard, but that was all I had in mind for portability.
                          You are putting together the design but I would be surprised if the consensus was for a large floor standing tower speaker. A speaker with the pluses and minuses of a big old monitor that doesn't look like a big old monitor I would expect to have less appeal. I would also expect this to be more of a second speaker rather than the main speaker in the lounge. Again it is your vision and not mine but if I had huge floor standing speakers in the lounge I would expect thunderous bass which was, of course, part of your original vision.

                          Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
                          Have you seen the 8 ohm DXT tweeter for sale anywhere, or just at the Tymphany website. I didn't see it at PE or Madisound...
                          I saw it at the Tymphany site when I checked to see if the original tweeter was current (the US quite often has models that are not available here in Europe). If interested you might need to ring the distributor (PE presumably?) to find out if it is new and on the way or OEM only.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                            I think a poll might be in order. Thread lurkers might be flushed out and a better idea of the interest in this speaker might result.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                              been following from the start , there's no replacement for displacement ... bigger is better !
                              Paper Towers
                              RS180P/28F surrounds
                              Boombox

                              Comment


                              • Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

                                Originally posted by andy19191 View Post
                                That is not the shape of a monitor. A monitor would be shorter with a height of 30" or so as illustrated in the pictures above. The specified driver doesn't need 100 litres. 70-80 litres will lose a few Hz at the bottom end in exchange for a more manageable cabinet for lugging around.
                                1. That's why boombox exists
                                2. Anything with a 12" or 15" is not meant for portability unless it's a PA specifically designed for portability (neodymium driver, plastic enclosure).

                                Originally posted by andy19191;
                                You are putting together the design but I would be surprised if the consensus was for a large floor standing tower speaker. A speaker with the pluses and minuses of a big old monitor that doesn't look like a big old monitor I would expect to have less appeal. I would also expect this to be more of a second speaker rather than the main speaker in the lounge. Again it is your vision and not mine but if I had huge floor standing speakers in the lounge I would expect thunderous bass which was, of course, part of your original vision.
                                I've a pair of Celestion Ditton 66 Monitor which are big floor stander. They look great! Don't you think ?

                                Click image for larger version

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                                Originally posted by filmslayer View Post
                                been following from the start , there's no replacement for displacement ... bigger is better !
                                +1

                                Chuck

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