Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

[mattp]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

What was the final sensitivity of your design? Several mids that have been considered are right around 87 dB. Do you think that's high enough to get a good tonal balance?

My final sensitivity was 87-88 dB. His 100 watt Onkyo receiver had no problem driving them as long as you watched the bass knob level. He couldn't, so I gave him an EP2000 I had laying around. I'll have to bring a dB meter over next time I play pool, they can get crazy, eye squinting loud.

I think a mid with a sensitivity of 87-89 should be perfectly fine for something like this.

[mattp]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

I am officially confused. What about these attachments?





Aye?????

[filmslayer]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

yea !!! there ya go ...

BTW , those speakers inspired my first build ...

[mattp]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

yea !!! there ya go ...

BTW , those speakers inspired my first build ...

Yay.

Wow really? I always like hearing those comments, thanks!

[filmslayer]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

Yay.

Wow really? I always like hearing those comments, thanks!

yeah but i am a noobie and don't know what the he!! i'm doing and they ended up a 2.5 way ... i still love them though ...

[Mayhem13]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

I am officially confused. What about these attachments?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48382[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48383[/ATTACH]

Aye?????

Part speaker........yep......but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time with a response that ragged. Too fatiguing for mortal ears.

[mattp]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

While I'm at it I might as well post the in-box for the DX25 too. It's perty.

Part speaker........yep......but I wouldn't want to spend a lot of time with a response that ragged. Too fatiguing for mortal ears.

That's exactly what they are too. Most of our listening is far off axis due to placement in the room, they surprisingly never get fatiguing. And my friend (the owner) is half deaf so he couldn't hear it anyway. There is much room for improvement if they are designed to be a sit-down-and-listen type system, these weren't from the start.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

Well I appreciate your graceful phraseology. I don't think 92 db is a reasonable goal. I think the woofer calculates at 90.xx db in Unibox and WBCD for 1 watt (slightly more for 2.83v). I would be really happy if we got 90db in the end but wouldn't be surprised by 88 or 89. Chuck just posted above that he is expecting 87 db (guestimate was his term) from a 3 way system he is building using the ST305.

Reaching 100 db with a 90 db sensitive system requires 10 watts so say that all drivers can handle thermally at least 40 watts then we are 6 db below their thermal limits which should be at a level before significant power compression for most drivers (well at least for pro drivers). The 110 db capability that I mentioned (did you have a typo when you wrote 100 db?) is certainly going to be at the outer limits of what a system at this budget would be able to do. But based on the thermal and excursion limits of the woofer it should be OK doing that (albeit with some likely compression occuring). The Scan mid would be close but perhaps fall a little short whereas the Faital mids and PRV mid should be fine. The SB tweeter or DX25 should both be in the right range. I know these ratings rely on manufacturer's specs and calculated output levels based on sensitivity and power handling, but you have to start somewhere.

I think the Faital 6Fe100 or the Scan Disco 15M or the PRV 6" would all meet that requirement for the most part. The Faital 6Fe200 with the higher sensitivity would definitely do that with no problem as would the B&C that you have mentioned. Again I love the B&C, but I don't know if we need all that sensitivity and output capability...it should be capable of sustained 115db output levels and still be a few db below its continuous thermal rating. I'm fine with a pro style mid. I like them. I use them in my main speakers. I appreciate their ability to get stupid loud without flinching. The Scan Speak is frankly the ONE affordable hifi oriented midrange candidate that catches my eye with its sensitivity, relatively smooth response and relatively high thermal capability (at least as rated by ScanSpeak).

Ok Loren....I'm thoroughly confused now. I COMPLETELY AGREE with the effects of power compression......yet we're designing a hifi speaker on a limited budget.....the two don't add up. I've seen a couple of posts concerning impedance and the safety of receivers?....again, a contradiction to a HiFi based speaker which should be driven with power amps with ample available current to handle 4ohm loads.

So if we're to summize the goals of this project from what I THINK you wish to accomplish (remember your critical listening statement above and the title of this thread) is a 92db efficient large format speaker system with a stable nominal 8 ohm impedance that can extend flat to 30hz in room and can reach 100db levels without power compression or excessive harmonic distortion for less than $500 in drivers and XO components?

I can't put this in any terms more gracefully other than the concept is Fubar with hifi based midrange drivers. You need a 94db efficient mid no larger than 6" and 8ohms nominal that can extend to 300hz on the bottom and 3khz on the top to work with the DX25. Such a driver does not exist outside of pro audio solutions.

So if you agree with my overview ( using the ST305 of course as there's really good value there) my suggestion would be to establish a budget for the mids ( considering the cost of the woofers and tweets is established) and using the other data, narrowing the pool of candidates. You CAN they that hifi level of fidelity.......but it's not going to be without a cost....literally! Lol

[lorenmjones]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

I have to agree that tweeter looks nice and smooth overall.

Are the woofer and midrange responses with their respective crossovers in place?

Thanks again for posting in this thread! I appreciate the input.

I love the look of those for sure. The duratex compliments them nicely.

While I'm at it I might as well post the in-box for the DX25 too. It's perty.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48384[/ATTACH]



That's exactly what they are too. Most of our listening is far off axis due to placement in the room, they surprisingly never get fatiguing. And my friend (the owner) is half deaf so he couldn't hear it anyway. There is much room for improvement if they are designed to be a sit-down-and-listen type system, these weren't from the start.

[mattp]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

I have to agree that tweeter looks nice and smooth overall.

Are the woofer and midrange responses with their respective crossovers in place?

Thanks again for posting in this thread! I appreciate the input.

I love the look of those for sure. The duratex compliments them nicely.

Thanks!

Those measurements are all full range, no XO's at all, and are on tweeter axis at 1m with 2.83v input. Below is the final system response with everything below 200 overlayed with a BassBox plot.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

I don't see too much to complain about there. The prominence at 900 hz might catch your attention a little but it is mild. The dip from 1k to 1.8k or so is a little deeper than one might design in to give a relaxed midrange, but based on looking at the PRV graphs that is an inherent characteristic of their response.

Did you say they are in the lounge with the pool table etc? I'm sure they do perfectly in there. Very nice!

Thanks!

Those measurements are all full range, no XO's at all, and are on tweeter axis at 1m with 2.83v input. Below is the final system response with everything below 200 overlayed with a BassBox plot.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]48386[/ATTACH]

[Jay1]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

The SS 15M is 90db 1w, it's a 4 ohm driver for sure. The 93db rating is at 2.83v. It's very smooth and extended all the way out to 10khz, very much an optimized mid. I never tested above 100db when I used it but it handled that level just fine crossed at 500hz.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

I don't know how I was missing that re: the 4 ohm impedance and the 92.5db being 2.83v. Well it should still have adequate sensitivity.

What context did you use it in?

Edit: Oops, I see that you used it in the Nova Forte.

The SS 15M is 90db 1w, it's a 4 ohm driver for sure. The 93db rating is at 2.83v. It's very smooth and extended all the way out to 10khz, very much an optimized mid. I never tested above 100db when I used it but it handled that level just fine crossed at 500hz.

[lorenmjones]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

All right. So I think the woofer and tweeter are settled in my mind with ST305 and SB26STCN.

My debate on the mid settles between the ScanSpeak 15M4624G and the Faital 6Fe100

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...5.25-midrange/
The Scan has admirably smooth response, good sensitivity and powerhandling, measured response and distortion that look very good as verified by forum members. On the con side is the price and I guess the 4 ohm impedance could be a con in some ways.

http://www.parts-express.com/faitalp...-ohm--294-1150
The Faital also has a nice smooth response in the required passband, good sensitivity and powerhandling, lower price and it is 8 ohms. Cons include lack of independent measurements, octagonal frame and the mild breakup peak that may need a notch filter.

Any thoughts to help with the decision? I have some irrational desire to use the ScanSpeak, but I think the Faital may be the more logical choice.

Please chime in. Perhaps I'll put a poll up for this as well.

[Mayhem13]

Re: Is there interest in a large three way "monkey coffin" collaboration?

Depends on the low pass point to the tweeter. Anything above 2khz, and you'll need to notch it. But look at the off axis....it's a null at the same freq?......never seen that behavior before. If that's accurate, a slight offset of the mid on the baffle might be exactly a perfect solution.

I wouldn't worry about countersinking that frame. Could go towards aligning the acoustic centers and allow for a classic LR2 crossover. My $$$ would be on the Faital.