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The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

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  • The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

    I brought this up before in my upcoming project thread. It will be a small 3-way using the Vifa XT25SC90, Vifa TC9, and Dayton ND105-4. Cabinet dimensions are 14" H x 6" W x 10" D.

    So the name for these comes from most recommendations on the board against this type of design (small 3-ways, especially those using such a small woofer). I acknowledge that sensitivity is going to be low and a bigger woofer would provide better bass. I'm trying to work with the limitations of the TC9, which has great midrange performance for its price. I wanted to keep the build fairly small and as cheap as possible while still getting good bass output. Only a few woofers really eat this criteria. It mainly came down to the b4n and the nd105. B4n could be used in a smaller cab but won't play as deep. The other thing that drew me to the nd105 was its generous xmax/xmech.

    I had the cabinets made by joeybutts, who did an excellent job on the baffles. I wanted to rear mount the woofers because of the frames. I worked with Joey to devise a mounting plate for the back of the face to hold the two woofers in place. The TC9 will use some PVC pipe reducers and lots of stuffing.

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    The progress I have made so far is getting the cabinets glued up, walnut veneer on the sides, and primering the baffle and back plate with Zinser BIN 1-2-3. The face and back panel will get sprayed with graphite metallic shown in the pictures. The walnut will get natural Danish oil, Zinser SealCoat, and probably satin lacquer.

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    I will be out of the country for work for a little over a week coming up soon so I probably won't get much else done until late September. Hope to take measurements when I get back so I can order the parts.
    Last edited by Navy Guy; 10-03-2014, 06:59 PM.
    -Kerry

  • #2
    Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

    OH COME ONNNNNNN....

    Picssssssssss.... :D
    Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

      Updated with pics
      -Kerry

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      • #4
        Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

        Veneer looks great. keep it rolling.....
        Builds - C-Killa - Speedsters - LithMTM - Talking Sticks - Pocket Rockets - Khanspires - Dayton RS Center - RS225/28A - Kairos - Adelphos - SEOS TD12X - Dayton 8 - Needles - 871S - eD6c - Overnight Sensations - Tritrix (ported) - Lineup F4 - Stentorians - The Cheapies - Tub Thumpers - Barbells - Tuba HT - Numerous subwoofers - probably missing a few...... :p

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

          It is certainly not against my protocols. The grey ones to the left of the tall white ones. I used the same mid.

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          I voiced the crossover wrong for the big room though.

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          • #6
            Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

            +1. All for the sake of fun! The cabinet does look smexy!!
            Originally posted by fdieck View Post
            It is certainly not against my protocols. The grey ones to the left of the tall white ones. I used the same mid.

            [ATTACH=CONFIG]49922[/ATTACH]

            I voiced the crossover wrong for the big room though.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

              Nice little design!

              I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
              "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

              High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
              SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
              My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

              Tangband W6-sub

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                Making some progress. One of the boxes has 4 coats of Danish oil. I plan to seal it with SealCoat and then spray with satin lacquer. Should be getting some measurements today or tomorrow. I'm trying to get these finished for NY DIY.

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                -Kerry

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                • #9
                  Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                  Gorgeous!
                  Man, the more I learn about finishing the less I think I know.
                  The "expert' at the local "wood porn" shop told me you couldn't put anything over Danish oil.

                  don

                  Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
                  Making some progress. One of the boxes has 4 coats of Danish oil. I plan to seal it with SealCoat and then spray with satin lacquer. Should be getting some measurements today or tomorrow. I'm trying to get these finished for NY DIY.

                  [ATTACH]50432[/ATTACH]

                  [ATTACH]50433[/ATTACH]

                  I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                  "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                  High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
                  SB13/Vifa BC25SC06 MTM DCR Galeons-SB13-MTM
                  My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

                  Tangband W6-sub

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                    I'm definitely not an expert. I found this technique online. Apparently SealCoat will go over anything and then you can apply almost anything over that.
                    -Kerry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                      Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
                      So the name for these comes from most recommendations on the board against this type of design (small 3-ways, especially those using such a small woofer). I acknowledge that sensitivity is going to be low and a bigger woofer would provide better bass.
                      You won't get any criticism from me. As a matter of fact, I recently built a small 3-way speaker set myself. But I used the same brand/model driver for both the mid and the woofer, to make it look like a MTM setup. The results were pleasantly surprising.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                        I got the measurements done this past weekend and started simming this week. I think I have something I like now. The midrange is a bit lumpy because of the mounting of the driver (taken on tweeter axis, on axis it is still pretty smooth), but I think it will work out ok. I'm looking right now at 12 parts with 3 of them being resistors. The hardest part was getting the impedance to look good. Everytime I got the phase lined up nice between the drivers and had a good summed response, I would check the impedance and it would look awful. This was the best compromise between driver phase/response and impedance I've gotten so far. I will probably order parts this weekend. Still have a bit to go on the cabinets though.

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                        Attached Files
                        -Kerry

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                          Where did you get the tweeter (XT19SC90)?

                          Interesting build, about how far do reckon that all the drivers sum together; minimum listening distance?

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                          • #14
                            Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                            Sorry, the tweeter should be XT25SC90. I'll have to check on the summing distance. I used 2 meters in the model, since I'll be listening at least that far away. The drivers are all pretty small and not terribly far apart so I would imagine a couple feet should be fine.
                            -Kerry

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The AP3 (Against Protocol 3-way) build thread

                              Crossover parts should be in tomorrow. Still working on the cabs though. Got the base coat sprayed yesterday on the baffles and I'll try to post some pics tonight. Should be able to get a coat or two of clear sprayed today.
                              -Kerry

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