DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

[saabracer23]

So I've built a few diy speakers and honestly they have all been the smaller designs (2 ways) that have tackled. I think I'm ready to tackle something to best my current reference speaker and take king of the hill.

I currently have a pair of KEF reference model 105.1 and I know this may be hard to answer as I'm sure many have not had a chance to hear it. All I can say is that it is pretty amazing. It does everything a a speaker is supposed to do and does it in spades. I just thought Id like to try something new! It was designed by Mike Gough and I believe Andrew Jones did an active version. Uses a T52 tweeter and B110 mid and I believe a B300 12" bass driver.

Ideas?

Thanks!
Dan

[Dewmiester]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Tarkus?

[Pallas]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Honestly that's a pretty big ask. Your speakers, while old, were designed with very modern priorities: flat and smooth axial response, smooth polars, low diffraction, etc.

You'll likely get more sonic benefit from augmenting them will small subwoofers around the room to smooth the response through the modal region than from building new mains. Or from moving the equipment rack on the side of the room (i.e. not between the speakers)...

[saabracer23]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Honestly that's a pretty big ask. Your speakers, while old, were designed with very modern priorities: flat and smooth axial response, smooth polars, low diffraction, etc.

You'll likely get more sonic benefit from augmenting them will small subwoofers around the room to smooth the response through the modal region than from building new mains. Or from moving the equipment rack on the side of the room (i.e. not between the speakers)...

Actually those aren't my actual photos. I don't have anything between the speaker. I do have them running with a Velodyne HGS15 that is a servo unit. I don't have it on all of the time but it is a nice addition.

Dan

[craigk]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.




maybe this will help if you want to play around

[Wolf]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]50629[/ATTACH]


maybe this will help if you want to play around

Odd tweeter filter there....

CR to droop top-end.
3rd order HP with 0.22uF bypass- to lift(?) the top-end.
Notch of some weird origin; The 0.025mH basically passes below about 20k, and the 30uF passes from about 663/1200 range depending on tweeter impedance. If the 30 is supposed to HP, the coil counteracts that, and the coil is really too small to affect anything except ultrasonics, or maybe an aluminum ringing- but the 30 would bypass that concern. Maybe it's a phase correction circuit?

The mid looks fairly conventional, but it's a weird layout from what we're accustomed to. damped 4th LP and 3rd HP.

The woofer;
If it's vented, the caps are likely to rolloff below tuning with that 360uF value. The resistor methinks is to minimize the capacitive load that this creates to the amplifier. Otherwise, it's just a standard 3rd order LP.

Maybe that will help you if you decide to play around,
Wolf

[andy19191]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Ideas?

Hmmm... How about a detailed measurement exercise of your current reference speakers to identify some parameters that might benefit from improvement. Then design/find something that improves on those parameters?

[DE Focht]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

So I've built a few diy speakers and honestly they have all been the smaller designs (2 ways) that have tackled. I think I'm ready to tackle something to best my current reference speaker and take king of the hill.

I currently have a pair of KEF reference model 105.1 and I know this may be hard to answer as I'm sure many have not had a chance to hear it. All I can say is that it is pretty amazing. It does everything a a speaker is supposed to do and does it in spades. I just thought Id like to try something new! It was designed by Mike Gough and I believe Andrew Jones did an active version. Uses a T52 tweeter and B110 mid and I believe a B300 12" bass driver.

Ideas?

Thanks![ATTACH=CONFIG]50627[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]50628[/ATTACH]
Dan

Besting your 105 is not a insurmountable problem if you are dedicated to the task, the 105's are nice speakers but even 20 years ago they sounded old versus other high quality commercial speakers. I owned 107/2 , 104/3's and many UNI Q Kefs, Question is what do you want the replacements to look like? Do you want it to be a smart speaker with room eq etc...or just another passive speaker? How much better do you want the new speaker to be? Budget thoughts?

It is a blank sheet of paper but your goal is within reach.

[johnhenry]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

I've listened to them in the late 80's, nice sounding speaker
imo the kangaroo look was better than fat boy bw dm 801

[chrisn]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

I nominate this woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-coil--295-512 and this for the mid: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...8-ohm--295-397

[isaeagle4031]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

I nominate this woofer: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-coil--295-512 and this for the mid: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...8-ohm--295-397

Throw a CSS APR15 on that UM12 in 2 cubes and you have the bottom end on the current build I'm working on. But I'm using the Eclipse W6520R and Dayton RS28F. Crossover points of about 300 and 2KHz. Be warned though the UM12 isn't exactly very sensitive. I'm putting this combo at about 80 to 81db.

[Architect7]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Just buy these and replace the damaged drivers:

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/eld/4694970665.html

[ligs]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

I have KEF 102(had 101 before) and Spendor SP1(the bigger brother of LS3/5a). I believe KEF 105.1 likely has similar smooth British sound plus some of the most neutral midrange presentation possible. If I were you I would keep the already excellent KEF105.1 but adding a quality tweeter (or tweeters), not to accentuate ,but to broaden the horizontal dispersion of the top octave frequency response. Some ribbon tweeters (even the old standby JVC ribbon) can open up the sound stage without intruding the overall sound quality. My 3 cents.

[fdieck]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Odd tweeter filter there....

CR to droop top-end.
3rd order HP with 0.22uF bypass- to lift(?) the top-end.
Notch of some weird origin; The 0.025mH basically passes below about 20k, and the 30uF passes from about 663/1200 range depending on tweeter impedance. If the 30 is supposed to HP, the coil counteracts that, and the coil is really too small to affect anything except ultrasonics, or maybe an aluminum ringing- but the 30 would bypass that concern. Maybe it's a phase correction circuit?

The mid looks fairly conventional, but it's a weird layout from what we're accustomed to. damped 4th LP and 3rd HP.

The woofer;
If it's vented, the caps are likely to rolloff below tuning with that 360uF value. The resistor methinks is to minimize the capacitive load that this creates to the amplifier. Otherwise, it's just a standard 3rd order LP.

Maybe that will help you if you decide to play around,
Wolf

http://www.kef.com/uploads/files/en/kef_topics/KEFTOPICS_vol1no2A.pdf

[saabracer23]

Re: DIY Design to Out Perform My Current Reference Speaker.

Odd tweeter filter there....

CR to droop top-end.
3rd order HP with 0.22uF bypass- to lift(?) the top-end.
Notch of some weird origin; The 0.025mH basically passes below about 20k, and the 30uF passes from about 663/1200 range depending on tweeter impedance. If the 30 is supposed to HP, the coil counteracts that, and the coil is really too small to affect anything except ultrasonics, or maybe an aluminum ringing- but the 30 would bypass that concern. Maybe it's a phase correction circuit?

The mid looks fairly conventional, but it's a weird layout from what we're accustomed to. damped 4th LP and 3rd HP.

The woofer;
If it's vented, the caps are likely to rolloff below tuning with that 360uF value. The resistor methinks is to minimize the capacitive load that this creates to the amplifier. Otherwise, it's just a standard 3rd order LP.

Maybe that will help you if you decide to play around,
Wolf

Sorry it took me awhile to get back Ben. I'm not sure where that schematic originated from, but it seems that pretty much most say that schematic is wrong. The mid and woofer are good but the tweeter is completely wrong. Looking at my crossover I got this: the 30 uF isn't there, it's empty. The .22 uF, again nothing there. The 2.2 uF, empty. The C12 spot where it says 7uF, has a 3.3 uF instead. The R3 where there is supposed to be a 47 ohm resistor it is empty. Now I'm not sure on the coils. All of the spots are populated but not sure of value. If you think it's smart I can remove them from the board and measure them with my LCR meter. I'll post a couple of pics, one of the schematic with the changes. If it's x'd out that means nothing there. I noted the capacitor value change one there as well. Other pic is a list of all the capacitors that are in the mid/tweeter board. I removed them all and measured them with the LCR meter.

Reason I posted that pic is because I'm wondering if I should replace them. They're from 1978, all electrolytics, but all seem to reasonably be within value with the exception of one 3.3 uF. Thoughts on this new info?

Thanks
Dan