Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

[cooper]

Just got my mailer today.

$400 for a pair of 1-1/2" dome tweets, $300 for 1".
$400 for a pair of 2-1/2" mids, $500 for a pair of 4" mids,
x-overs for $400 pair, $500 for a 10" sub, $550 for a 12".
Sounds like an expensive install. Anybody know anything about this gear?
Just curious, because out of my budget.

[duanebro]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

I saw some people going crazy for this on facebook. I don't see what the fuss is all about. The subs have a switch that changes impedance. (Series or parallel DVC.) Not really a big deal imho. And that the xo has a dial that can change tweeter level from 0 to -12 db. I always thought that a pot was no big deal, and not a new thing....

[SPLEclipse]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

There's a huge thread about it over on DIYMA. There's an excellent group of guys behind the company, and all drivers were designed by Andy Wehmeyer (formerly of JBL/Harmon). Too rich for my blood, but not far away from the price points of "typical" high-end car stuff by Morel, HAT, etc...

[isaeagle4031]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

Yeah agreed Duane. No real info yet posted on the drivers but at least the xover look ok.

[Architect7]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

On DIYMA Andy reported the Crutchfield staff subjectively preferred the sound of the AF stuff over anything else they carry in a direct comparison. That is pretty exciting in itself, regardless of what most people here might think of Crutchfield. I'd really like to compare that 6 1/2" to my Esotars.

[duanebro]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

I think their target market is the people buying Mosconi, Focal, etc. So price is not a big deal to their target audience. Looks and sound are though. I commented on a facebook post about this topic and Andy Wehmeyer responded personally. This is a good start for a new high-end company.

[ErinH]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

This is some copy/paste from DIYMA with klippel data on the drivers and my response (to save me time):

Instalher,

They're all designed from the ground up. Here's some data on the 6" midbass/midrange. I think you'll find this to be quite a bit better than most car audio drivers and on par with the best drivers from many of the European manufacturers.

Looking at the data you've provided, what I'm seeing and also assuming on some points is...

Klippel results indicate excellent motor and suspension symmetry which should translate well to very low HD and IMD. Based on my rough math, looking at the plots from my phone, I'm calculating Bl limit of 82% at 7mm and suspension limit of 75% at 7.5mm. Both one-way, for clarification. The 82% and 75% are the standard 10% THD limit values for Klippel. The Le(x) would probably not resolve and indicates it's linear xmax component to be outside of xProt (10mm).

The suspension data shows a good balance of broad/narrow suspension curve which indicates these will not just hit a stop gap in regards to mechanical limits. It looks like you'd get some lee-way before you hit that 'flop' sound if you were to get really silly with them. Having used drivers that had the 'flop', I'd say that's a good thing. ;)

That overall Le(x) curve looks really good with less than 0.05mH **** over the swing of 7mm linear throw and 0.20mH at rest. That's quite good. Compare to the Scan 18wu with 9.1mm linear throw and about 0.04mH range (0.20mH at rest), or the JBL 660GTi with about 0.02mH range in it's 7.4mm throw (0.28mH at rest). This means that this particular driver will get down with good linear throw and low intermodulated distortion in the upper frequencies. IOW, a perfect driver for a 2-way system with output. And in this case, the coil out (or, in) on your driver shows a very low distortion profile.

The HD data looks quite good as well. The fundamental is at about 99dB @ 1khz. I will assume this is done at 1m. In this case, that makes the results even better. I perform my testing in the nearfield (because some of us aren't lucky enough to have access to an anechoic chamber, lol) but an equivalent volume of 96dB @ 1m. So, your testing would essentially double the power compared to what I do. The THD is down by about 50dB from about 200 - 3.2khz. That's about 0.30% THD in this range. Excellent. The 3% THD mark doesn't hit until about 80hz (accounting for the fundamental trailing off and the rising HD creating a gap about 30dB wide). Again, that's really good for a 6.5" driver. Even more so when you realize these suckers are playing at near 100dB/1m. Incredibly impressive.

This driver doesn't exhibit the typical cone edge resonance most drivers have which often result in a dip in FR and a peak in HD in the 1.2khz ballpark (ie; Audio Technology, Scan Speak 18wu, SB Satori, and the JBL 660GTi). Each of these drivers mentioned have about a 2-3% THD narrow Q peak at this range. Some don't seem to care. But, others do. I thought it was worth noting that Andy's driver doesn't exhibit this characteristic.

There does seem to be a broad Q breakup above 4khz. The thing is, though, it's really well tamed it seems. Rather than having numerous peaks/bumps after beaming, this particular drivers seems to just have a wide breakup profile and is already outside the band of where I'm sure Andy would suggest crossing (keeping in line with polar response patterns).


Overall, this data looks really good. Based on what Andy has shown us, I'd rank it objectively with the Scan 18wu and JBL 660GTi. Depending on application (ie; do you need more a woofer or a midwoofer) it may trump the other two. And to be in that kind of company is quite excellent. At this point, those are the two best midwoofers I've tested overall. The 18wu retails for over $300/each and the GTI was part of a $1500+ component set. I'm still looking forward to seeing some more data. Particularly on/off axis data.

Kudos to you Andy. Really, man. This stuff looks incredibly promising.

Here's a plot of the 6" at 0 degrees, 30 degrees and 60 degrees off axis. The bump at 6k is a common first order bending mode where the center of the cone moves differently than the rest of the cone. For a 6" driver, we've pushed this further out than many others. The reason it's more prominent in the 60 degree measurement is because that sound emanates from the center of the cone, which has a smaller circumference than the whole cone, thus, wider dispersion.

Here's a picture of the 6" with the 1" tweeter graph superimposed. You'll see that with a steep crossover at about 2.5k, this will provide a good transition from mid to tweeter pretty far off axis.

Finally, here's one with the 1.5" tweeter. With a crossover of 1.5k, this is the killer app in a 2-way system.

Oh, these measurements are WITH THE GRILLES. They are designed to be used WITH THE TWEETER GRILLES. The midrange is the same with and without.

Additionally, Andy/Audiofrog posted some on-axis FR plots of some of their drivers (the 6.5", 2.5", 4", and tweeters) on facebook last week. The responses look EXCELLENT. I was most impressed by how well controlled the breakup of the mid(s) cones are outside of the typical passband. Why does this matter? Because it makes mating a tweeter to them much easier and it means you're less likely going to run in to out-of-passband linear distortion from the breakup.

I think each of the mids had no more than 5dB breakup peaks. That's superb. Even highly-regarded, well engineered cones have as much as 10dB peaks.

Based on what was posted on FB, and the Klippel data I've seen, I'm telling you guys these are some seriously well-engineered drive units. The engineering I'm seeing on these through the data is at least on par with Scan engineering. You can absolutely tell these aren't simple "off the shelf/rebranded" drive units with an incredible mark up to create a sense of superiority. The data tells the tale: these are indeed a superior driver to I'd say 90% of what I've tested in every sense of the word.

I'm looking forward to seeing the off-axis FR data, and if it's like what I've seen thus far, I imagine it's superb as well.




Cliffs: This stuff is legit. It's not just overpriced off-the-shelf junk that many boutique brands start off with. Based on the data presented, these drivers from AF are of the Scan Speak caliber. And that's considerably high praise.

[AudiofrogAndy]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

That's funny. I came here to buy a microphone for someone and some grille cloth and I found this.

Thanks Erin!

[emilime75]

Re: Audiofrog from Crutchfield (car audio) $$

That's funny. I came here to buy a microphone for someone and some grille cloth and I found this.

Thanks Erin!

Haha, welcome to PETT, Andy. I was just going to say how you've been an active member in the DIY car audio community and have helped many in the hobby, including myself when I had a problem with an MS8. Based on what I know about you from the forums and the type of person you've shown to be, I have little hesitation assuming your new venture is anything but great. A little rich for my blood but, maybe one day...