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  • Question for Jeff Bagby

    Jeff,

    I have built some various speakers as you can see from my signature. I have been wanting to put my OS system in my bedroom and put another HT/Music system in our now larger living room. The OS's did great in our apartment but now with a much larger space to fill with 10' ceilings it is not filling the room with sound like the OS's did in the apartment.

    I have been wanting to build some of your speaker designs for awhile now. I wanted something that was more refined and revealing like your continuums but would also sound great for movies and would fill a 25X15X10 area with sound.

    I was thinking about a pair of your fusion 8 towers and fusion 8 center channel.

    So what would you recommend?

    Kevin
    Shaken, not stirred...

    Classix II
    OS MTM's
    Digger 8 sub
    Overnight Sensations Center Channel
    Sprite Build
    Wolf's PC Speakers
    Minions III with Voxel Sub

  • #2
    Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

    Not Jeff but I have owned both the continuum and the fusion 8 alchemy (not the tower). I have to say I much preferred the continuum. The fusions aren't bad but they aren't as refined. What the alchemy are good at is being loud and clean. They will still need a sub though. I say this because I could enjoy my continuums without a sub but felt my fusions needed a sub.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

      Hope you guys don't mind if I expand the questions for Jeff slightly...

      Jeff, I'd love some comments on the 88 Special as well. I'm definitely planning on one for a center, probably L/R as well, and I hadn't seen any flowery prose from you on how well you like them, or how they compare to your Fusion 8 and 12 designs.

      Thanks!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

        Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
        Jeff,

        I have built some various speakers as you can see from my signature. I have been wanting to put my OS system in my bedroom and put another HT/Music system in our now larger living room. The OS's did great in our apartment but now with a much larger space to fill with 10' ceilings it is not filling the room with sound like the OS's did in the apartment.

        I have been wanting to build some of your speaker designs for awhile now. I wanted something that was more refined and revealing like your continuums but would also sound great for movies and would fill a 25X15X10 area with sound.

        I was thinking about a pair of your fusion 8 towers and fusion 8 center channel.

        So what would you recommend?

        Kevin
        Hmmmm..... those are two very different speakers, each designed with different goals in mind. For what it's worth, I think Killa's summary is pretty good, and for all I know he and I may be the only people who have had both of these speakers in our systems.

        There are similarities between the Continuum and the Alchemy - namely, they were designed by the same person, on the same system, using the same music, and I actually used the Continuum against the Alchemy during voicing. The result is a similar tonal balance, and I think a slight family resemblance exists.

        But the differences cannot be ignored. The Alchemy is 10-11 dB more sensitive than the Continuum, and that's a lot. But it does gives some things up in the process. Drivers do have a characteristic sound, if it were not so then we would only have a very small number to choose from because they would all sound the same. The truth though, is that no matter what a speaker designer does he will not be able to make $10 dome tweeter sound like a Scanspeak Aircirc. This being the case, imagine making a small compression driver mounted on a waveguide sound the same as a RS28a on a small baffle. Also, remember, the woofer in the Alchemy is a pro-sound 8" model with a paper cone, high sensitivity, and limited bass capability with a 65Hz Fs and 3mm of Xmax.

        The result is that I am trading off bass extension and distortion for high sensitivity with the Alchemy. It is an enjoyable and popular speaker and has a smoother frequency response than is normally available in a pro-sound speaker, but it is not quite as smooth as the Continuum, its distortion profile is not as low, and its bass is not as extended. It will, as Killa said, play loud and clean and sounds pretty natural when doing so, but it does need a subwoofer, as there is very little bass below 65 Hz. This has been a very popular speaker at diysoundgroup, and from the feedback I have received, everyone seems to love it. It will not have the same smoothness and resolution as the Continuum, but it will certainly fill a room with good clean sound.

        Your room is about the same size as my family room. I run the Continuums in the room with single subwoofer and listen at about 10 feet away. I am usually very happy, but I don't normally push them to high SPL's; for that I have other speakers I use when I want to blast things. So, it's hard for me to say whether they would work for you. There is no doubt that the little woofers will be limited in a large space, it just come down to your listening distance and SPL level. If you want an recommendation for something that can play louder and deeper than the Continuum and sound very refined then I would throw the Docero kit into the conversation: http://meniscusaudio.com/docero-bare...ir-p-1409.html This is a very good speaker in my opinion. Also, there are a lot of people who love the Alchemy and who love the compression driver "sound". That's a personal preference and will be up to each person to decide.

        Jeff
        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

          Originally posted by rhodesj View Post
          Hope you guys don't mind if I expand the questions for Jeff slightly...

          Jeff, I'd love some comments on the 88 Special as well. I'm definitely planning on one for a center, probably L/R as well, and I hadn't seen any flowery prose from you on how well you like them, or how they compare to your Fusion 8 and 12 designs.

          Thanks!
          I've done so many speakers that I don't end up living with them all. This is one that I did not spend a lot of time with on my own. However, I have received some incredibly good feedback on it. In fact, some of the best I have received on any speaker. The 88 Special actually began as Erich's design. He wanted a center channel of this basic size with controlled directivity and high efficiency to fit in the Fusion line. He chose the drivers and the basic cabinet design and I did the crossover for him. The design expects that there will be some degree of boundary reinforcement. I designed it sitting on a small riser placed below my TV screen.

          The speaker has become very popular. In employs dual 8" drivers (the same as the Alchemy speakers) and a larger compression driver on the SEOS-15 waveguide. These drivers have a similar horizontal and vertical directivity in this configuration and with low 950Hz crossover, maintain a controlled off-axis response. It was designed to have very flat frequency response and optimized for vocal / center channel duties. Its sensitivity is essentially the same as the Fusion-12 (98 db) so it makes a good match for it as a center channel. It also works well with the Alchemy's as surround speakers. It's fine to use all around in a 5.1 - 7.2 system, but keep in mind, due to the use of the 8" drivers its low end is limited in the same way that the Alchemy is and there is little output below 60 Hz. You definitely need subwoofers here. The Fusion-12 can run more full-range. For the midbass up the 88 Special is just as good, no doubt. I have been told it is one of the best voice reproducing high efficiency speakers available for center channel use.

          Jeff
          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

            Kevin,
            Since you have a pair of Diggers to take care of the low end, I think the Continuums would still work well. In my room about 20x14x8 (smaller than yours), my Nichikuros can easily fill the room with full sound with plenty of mileage on the volume knob to travel. My Nichikuros are only slightly larger and maybe 2dB more sensitive than the Continuums.
            Actually in my old house, I had the Nichikuros in a 14x30x8 room and it had no problems filling it.
            None of my 4in woofer based speakers like the OSs or even the might little W4-1720 can sound as full in such a large room (though my Madisons did a much better job than the OS in larger rooms).
            Nichikuros - Peerless 831735 Nomex + Vifa NE25VTA
            Digger8 - Small compact 8" sub with F3 = 20Hz
            Madison-D and Madison-R - Tang Band W4-1720 + Vifa BC25SC06 or Beston RT003C (TM and MTM)
            Jeffrey - Tang Band W5-704D + Beston RT003C
            Jasmine - Fountek FW146 + Fountek NeoCD3.0 Ribbon in Pioneer BS21 Cabinet

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

              Thanks everyone for the replies. Because the living room is open to the dining room and the kitchen and now even filled with furniture and pictures hanging on the wall it still has a slight echo. My OS MTM's running 4 ohm load on a older Onkyo amp just dont seem to be able to fill the space. It isnt too bad right in front of the screen, but I am still bummed out on the dialog. I still find it hard to hear all the dialog in movies with the OS CC.

              But since I want to move the OS system to my bedroom I want to fill the rest of the living room/ and everywhere else out front with sound.

              I was leaning more to the Alchemy 8's because I love live sound and pro drivers do appeal to me. The new sub I have planned will more then take care of the bottom end so <80 will be taken care of.

              I guess the reason why I am asking is that I find myself liking a more refined sound now but at the same time want the sound to be big and fill a cavernous room.

              Any ideas?

              Kevin
              Shaken, not stirred...

              Classix II
              OS MTM's
              Digger 8 sub
              Overnight Sensations Center Channel
              Sprite Build
              Wolf's PC Speakers
              Minions III with Voxel Sub

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

                Originally posted by kevin007 View Post
                Thanks everyone for the replies. Because the living room is open to the dining room and the kitchen and now even filled with furniture and pictures hanging on the wall it still has a slight echo. My OS MTM's running 4 ohm load on a older Onkyo amp just dont seem to be able to fill the space. It isnt too bad right in front of the screen, but I am still bummed out on the dialog. I still find it hard to hear all the dialog in movies with the OS CC.

                But since I want to move the OS system to my bedroom I want to fill the rest of the living room/ and everywhere else out front with sound.

                I was leaning more to the Alchemy 8's because I love live sound and pro drivers do appeal to me. The new sub I have planned will more then take care of the bottom end so <80 will be taken care of.

                I guess the reason why I am asking is that I find myself liking a more refined sound now but at the same time want the sound to be big and fill a cavernous room.

                Any ideas?

                Kevin
                Based on this, you should give the Alchemy's a try. They're loud, very dynamic, and more refined than you might think. They will certainly fill a room with no problems.
                Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

                  Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                  Based on this, you should give the Alchemy's a try. They're loud, very dynamic, and more refined than you might think. They will certainly fill a room with no problems.
                  On my list!

                  Thanks Jeff!

                  Kevin
                  Shaken, not stirred...

                  Classix II
                  OS MTM's
                  Digger 8 sub
                  Overnight Sensations Center Channel
                  Sprite Build
                  Wolf's PC Speakers
                  Minions III with Voxel Sub

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question for Jeff Bagby

                    Since we are discussing designs by Jeff B, has anyone built the Auricles (and survived through the temporary lack of cash thereafter)? The Auricle is the raal/satori combo. I would ask that we refrain from a debate on whether or not the products are worth the price and focus on actual listening impressions and measurements (especially off axis)...Jeff has given me feedback directly on these and I absolutely trust his impressions and measurements, however I was wondering if anyone else has attempted this build and what you thought about it...I would hope that an investment into such quality parts and attention to detail for a well braced and solid enclosure should deliver a rewarding musical experience that is also validated by respectable measurements...maybe...that's why I seek feedback from the Great and Powerful Forum...
                    “Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else.” ― George Orwell, 1984

                    Builds: Auricles | NaO Note II RS | Fusion 12 | The Piccolo's | Mark K's ER18's | Pluto Clones | Dayton 15" Ultimax Sub | Kairos | DIYSG 1099 Home Theater

                    Comment

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