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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    There are 1/4 thickness on ebay but I prefer the 1/2 over 1/4 as the 1/2 sounds more full while the 1/4 sounds more thin. As for the width of the panel 12 inches is too wide/large..... A small panels ideal width should be around 5-8 inches give or take a few inches, while the height can be the same and or at max double the width. This is the reason I recommended the 6X10X1/2 EPS.

    Also ideal DML panel height placement when you are sitting down is below ear level. DML's have very wide dispersion patterns so if the panel is to tall the high frequencies tend to go over your head.

    To many people watch Tech Ingredients vids and think that there panels should be placed higher up above ear level which is not the ideal height placement.

    Leave a comment:


  • allenb
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    Styrofoam Sheets (6" X 10" X 1/2") - Craft Quality Sheets | eBay

    Smaller panels are better suited for mids and highs and since you are using a pair of 8inch woofers you dont have to worry about the low end.

    Although there will be a difference the benefits are subjective to your personal preference. Its basically about dispersion.
    I agree entirely on small versus large panels. I'm looking for the 150 hz - 8K range. I'm shooting for a 12" x 12" x 1/4" panel and can cut larger panels down to the 12x12 but can't hot wire cut the thickness down which would be needed if using the source you linked to. Do you know of any sources who can sell small quantities of the 1/4" thickness in the higher densities?

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Styrofoam Sheets (6" X 10" X 1/2") - Craft Quality Sheets | eBay

    Smaller panels are better suited for mids and highs and since you are using a pair of 8inch woofers you dont have to worry about the low end.

    Although there will be a difference the benefits are subjective to your personal preference. Its basically about dispersion.

    Leave a comment:


  • allenb
    replied
    Hi everyone. New member here. I've read all of the thread and lots of great info here.
    I'm building a pair of open baffle using a pair of 8" woofers for low end and want to build something similar to the Bertagni SM80's in a 12x12 for mid-hi. Will experiment with adding extended hi range after giving a listen.

    A couple of questions. I've had no luck finding a source for the 1/4" eps in 2lb or anything in that range but did see a reference to a UK source. Can someone shoot me some possibilities for higher density eps here in the states? Ebay turned up nothing either but maybe was not searching with correct wording.

    The open baffle wings will be 8" deep from floor to top of enclosure. Do you see any huge benefit in stopping the wings where the 12x12s will reside?

    Thanks,
    Allen

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    commented on 's reply
    The Z standard cap on the 2nd order low pass made a difference as its now smoother and more neutral then the dayton cap.

  • DeZZar
    commented on 's reply
    I've used the Jantzen cross cap on the woofer circuit before and can't complain. I'm going to try the Standard Z next time.

  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    For my DML panels the best capacitor is the Jantzen Z standard over the Theta and Dayton film and foil caps.

    Theta is clear and detailed but gives out ear fatigue. Maybe a boosted top end?

    Dayton film and foil is sounds very open but has a lot of sibilance and or what some might call air? DML's have a lot of sibilance to begin with so more is not needed especially for my taste.

    The Jantzen Z standard is more neutral/smooth sounding with way less sibilance then both caps mentioned above. I guess it comes down to personal taste as some people like sibilance.

    Also some people mentioned that ones speakers must be very revealing in order to hear differences in capacitors and DML's are very revealing to begin with and even more so if built/designed right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    commented on 's reply
    On the DIY forum some members were saying that in a low pass second order Xover that a higher end cap wont make any difference. I was thinking of changing the datyon cap to a Jantzen cap of the same value in my second order low pass to see if it actually makes a difference.

  • DeZZar
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah the old law of diminishing returns kicks in fast! You start to only get very small incremental gains (if any) the further you go. And honestly I do have the type of overall system that has the resolution to find those last few percent so I just try and keep the parts selection within a cost that's reasonable for the overall speaker.

  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    I totally get what you are saying. Although I havent tried many caps what I've noticed from all the caps I have tried is that they IMO "COLOR" the sound for better or for worse. In my DML designs I prefer the colored sound of the Jantzen Z standard as they help smooth out the shout and sibilance from my DML panels combined with the Audiocap Theta smoothing it out even more but adding extra detail. So I guess it comes down to each individual design as well as other factors like you mentioned and of course personal preference.

    The Dayton poly/metal caps (DMPC/PMPC dont suit my DML designs very well as they can sound a tad bit sharp/harsh/grainny on certain vocals and instruments. I just tested the Dayton DFFC film and foil caps and they are much more suitable to my liking as they smooth out the sharp/harsh/grainny sound of my DML panels. The difference IMO of the Dayton film and foil and the Audiocap Theta is the Theta is clearer with more detail but it cost almost 7 times the price of the Daytons but its not 7 times better. lol

    Leave a comment:


  • DeZZar
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    OMG. Anyone that says they cant tell the difference between NPE and all other higher end caps must be smoking crack or deaf as heck. LOL
    Yeah it all boils down to the overall quality of the system from source all the way to room. Someone running cheap drivers with museum grade nostalgia amplification streaming spotify out the headphone jack of their phone won't hear a difference (most likely).

    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    Now I am wondering just how those Jantzen Alumen foil Z caps would sound like compared to the Audiocap theta? Or the Jantzen Z superior or Silver? Maybe later down the road.
    In theory as the caps get better they simply get closer to sounding like there isn't a cap at all. The best cap is no cap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    My P.E. package worth of $140.00 in capacitors have arrived today. I upgraded from a combination of NPE/Jantzen standard to Jantzen Standard/Audiocap Theta and OMG. Anyone that says they cant tell the difference between NPE and all other higher end caps must be smoking crack or deaf as heck. LOL

    The Jantzen S/Theta cap combo OMG just took my DML panels to a whole another level. It took away the shout/harsh/grainess/sibilance and gave out more clarity and detail. I hear subtle details in tracks I am familiar with that I've havent noticed before. I dont think I could ever go back to NPE. I did buy some Dayton film foil but havent tested them out yet but will soon once I have more time. Only down fall is the cost. The theta cap cost around 4 times the price of the exciters I use and in fact is the most expensive part of my DML panels. LOL

    I was skeptical at first because of the price of those expensive caps and some mixed reviews but I guess you do get what you pay for when buying those expensive caps. Now I am wondering just how those Jantzen Alumen foil Z caps would sound like compared to the Audiocap theta? Or the Jantzen Z superior or Silver? Maybe later down the road.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    As I mentioned before if you look at all the BMR drivers none of them are larger then 3.5 inches. Why? because once the diaphragm starts getting larger the more the high frequencies will suffer. The smaller the driver the better the high frequency because at that small size only the high frequencies are being produced due to physics. Once the diaphragm starts getting larger it will produce more midrange frequencies. If it gets even larger then midbass then bass then sub bass the larger it becomes. If Tectonic made a 6,1/2inch BMR driver it would no longer be classified as full range but rather a mid/woofer or wide band in which it would have to be coupled to a tweeter with crossover as a 2 way design like Phase Technology speakers which use a flat BMR like driver for the mid/bass and a 1inch dome tweeter for the highs. Even Sony and Technics made a BMR type of speaker with there APM series of flat diaphragm speakers that utilized a tweeter and mid/woofer or tweeter, midrange and woofer. Like I said BMR technology is nothing new.

    Phase Technology - YouTube


    Sony APM-77W exclusive design by Oldplayer.ru (винтаж аудио) - YouTube




    TECHNICS SU-A6 SE-A5 & Technics SB-M2 тест Oldplayer - YouTube

    Leave a comment:


  • LOUT
    commented on 's reply
    After comparing some measurements side-by-side, it looks like the whizzer cones could be giving a boost around 10Khz and up which is certainly more than I was thinking they did. I'm not sure how much of the sound up there is distortion though, so that might or might not be a problem (I don't know if the usual mention of woofer distortion in the high frequencies is linear or non-linear). They still have relatively poor off-axis dispersion compared to most dome tweeters, but maybe that's because they're still fairly large-diameter, larger than most dome tweeters around 1" at least.?

  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Bass from DML's is design dependent. There is a flaw in the exciters design so bass is limited, this is why the BMR was invented as it fixes the exciters flaw. There is also a reason why a BMR driver is (3.5) "SMALL".

    Its not really about the beaming its more about the dispersion. High frequencies come out of the center/middle of the cone are closest to the voice coil and disperse outwards towards the edges of the surround material hence why the whizzer cone or plug/dust cap is in the center of the driver. The larger the diaphragm becomes the less prominent the highs will sound as it has to travel across that huge surface area. The smaller the diaphragm the more prominent the highs will become as it does not have to travel that far from the center. This is why smaller panels will have better high frequencies as opposed to larger panels. When you throw a pebble into the pond the highs are in the middle and radiate outwards untill it reaches the edges of the pound but the bigger the pond the weaker the ripples become once it reaches the edges. Not sure if you understand my analogy? lol

    Look at the paper cone tweeters on P.E. Most people dont realize that some of the sound radiating off that
    "paper", cone tweeter is coming from the MYLAR and or ALUMINUM dust cap in the center which increases the high frequency sounds....I AM GIVING YOU HINTS LOUT. lol

    My question to you is have actually HEARD them side by side?....as two drivers can have similar specs but sound fairly different which will further prove that the whizzer cone/phase plug/dust cap does make a difference. I highly doubt that a reputable brand like Tang Band (or any other high end brand) would use whizzer cones on there bamboo full range drivers just for gimmicks.

    Leave a comment:

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