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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Yea the ear shape is most likely for standing waves....The same way its recommended to place the exciter off center but instead of moving the exciter, Bertagni moves the panel by making it a off center shape.

    Same here as my main/first priority is superb sound quality and everything else is secondary for now.....My brother came over yesterday and asked me what the heck are those things and I told them they are my DIY speakers and he laughed because he said they look like Frankenstein speakers cosmetically but when he heard them he wasn't laughing any more as he was in awe of there sound quality....He told me as soon as I make them look nice cosmetically I could sell those speakers for a good amount of money.....Then my brother said are these speakers the same as those Pink square panels I built around 4 years ago and I said yes basically its the same concept but a totally different design and he said those pink panels sound nothing like these panels they don't even come close and this was from his memory from 4 years ago which just goes to show that the difference in the standard (Rich M.) design and my design is like night and day.

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  • Brewster56
    replied
    Greetings DML builders! My first post - I am amazed by the DML technology! I have built Rich M's design and really enjoy them. Actually 6 of them (surround sound) - but mainly listen to stereo. I have slot loaded ob's running from 30-180 hz,, DML's 180 & up. Behringer electronic crossover, and EQ from it for the panels. I also run (2) 15's in infinite baffle for subs.

    Previously I was listening to the OB's with BG 50" planars and/or some electrostatic panels that I built. One of the planars died so that kind of forced me to dial in the DML's; and now I don't think I'll be going back. The Sheffield Drum and Track Record just confirmed that for me! My panels are 19 x 31, 1" Formular 150, unsupported DAEX32EP-4's.

    So now I want to improve on what I have. Unbiasedsound, I also have been thinking about the elephant shape, given the irregular shape should be positive to minimize standing waves or response peak/dips? I will do whatever it takes to get the best sound. Looks, size, damage protection, etc. all come after the sound quality (detail, live sounding, dynamic range, etc). So when I consider copying elements of Bertagni, Podium or Yamaha, I wonder what they would have built, if only for the best sound and had not had to consider manufacture-ability, consumer acceptance, cost, shipping, etc.?

    Thanks to all on this forum for what I have learned so far!

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Eh, not really as its still basically a modified design of Yamahas NS-20 Ear speakers in which someone stated that Yamaha copied Bertagni speakers and modified them....I haven't found the right length of wood for the right price yet so I am probably going to put this design on hold as I am not sure if its going to sound good or not as this is a different design then my modified Bertagni design which is proven satisfactory to my ears.

    I am playing my Bastat sat/sub DML panels right now and that Drum track sounds so friggen amazing, I wish yawl could hear it.

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  • Zene
    replied
    Unb ... now you're talking my language moving off the beaten path. Can't wait for results and pics. My 4 way is moving slowly (very). Oddly is almost opposite; cone bass, DML upper bass, DML mid and BMR tweeter.



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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    My order of the refurbished Tectonic exciters arrived yesterday. Tested them all out and they all work fine the only down fall was that 2 of the exciters had a lot of solder on the terminals.

    With these exciters I am planning on building a similar design to Yamahas NS-20/30 Ear speakers which uses Expanded Polystyrene for the woofer with a conventional cone midrange and tweeter....My design will be a little different using 2-3inch full range drivers one facing forward and one on the back like in a bipolar configuration....The polystyrene woofer will be crossed with a 2nd order 800hz low pass, while the full range conventional cone drivers will be ran with a high pass at 800hz....I usually use 4inch frames but Yamahas frame seems to be double or even triple the size in which I suspect they did it for increased bass response since the polystyrene woofer is recessed closer to the back of the frame while the conventional cone drivers are on the front side or because the conventional mid woofer is close to the polystyrene woofer to prevent phase issues.....They also use some type of dampening material inside of the frame.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNGsFul8sXI

    I also ordered a Dayton usb dac for my PC and oh my goodness the clarity and dynamics is much better now....playing some Chantel Chamberland on my revised Bastat panels with a powered sub it sounds so friggen amazing.

    My project will start once I acquire the longer length of wood, probably going to go with 10 inch length or whatevers the cheapest available.

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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by Zene View Post
    This thread seemed to go on forever with only slight improvements from all I read. Don't get me wrong as I would not have had a chance without you guys' pioneering.

    From my own experience when comparing Bertagni speakers to Rich M. panels in a direct A/B comparison, Bertagni speakers are a significant improvement over (Rich M.) the standard beginners design.

    I even took it a couple steps further and improved and bested, Bertagnis design....So coming from my own experience the improvements weren't just slight but vastly improved like night and day.

    Also I am still learning as I learn something new about these DML panels every time I tinker with them to try and further improve on there sound quality....in fact right after I type this I am going to see if my idea that I had since last night will make the sound of my panels better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cahudson42
    replied
    Originally posted by dwigle View Post
    We've been down this road before on this forum. DIY is a continuum and you can jump in wherever you like. You can grow cotton and harvest trees to make your own paper woofer cones. On the other end you can use someone else's proven design and build a kit. Both are DIY but at a different scale. There is very little unique in this world, nearly everything comes from the sum of our experiences. Improving on other's designs isn't cheating the DIY system, it's progress. The hugely successful Pioneer HPM 100 wasn't unique, it was a copy in concept of another hugely popular speaker, the JBL L100.
    Great point! From Vilchur's original AR1 came 2, 3, KLH, Advent - to my current B652 AIRs😊

    Hopefully to be replaced/augmented with panels when get back to my Woodworking shop in June...

    Leave a comment:


  • Cahudson42
    replied
    Has anyone done an A/B of their designed and built panels against a pair of, say, Magnepan .7s?

    URLs? Post reference? DIY design details of those compared?

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by Zene View Post
    Unb ... your help has been most valuable, but may have to disagree if I read you correctly. Copying other designs with improvements is not a DIY goal in my book. Extending way beyond them by taking different paths is. This thread seemed to go on forever with only slight improvements from all I read. Don't get me wrong as I would not have had a chance without you guys' pioneering.

    DIY means Do it yourself which means you can do what ever you want to reach your own goals or destination....If you feel the need to take a different path just to be unique then good luck with it but often times that path way is usually a dead end....The path that everyone should strive for is the path that yields the "BEST RESULTS".

    Leave a comment:


  • dwigle
    replied
    We've been down this road before on this forum. DIY is a continuum and you can jump in wherever you like. You can grow cotton and harvest trees to make your own paper woofer cones. On the other end you can use someone else's proven design and build a kit. Both are DIY but at a different scale. There is very little unique in this world, nearly everything comes from the sum of our experiences. Improving on other's designs isn't cheating the DIY system, it's progress. The hugely successful Pioneer HPM 100 wasn't unique, it was a copy in concept of another hugely popular speaker, the JBL L100.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zene
    replied
    Unb ... your help has been most valuable, but may have to disagree if I read you correctly. Copying other designs with improvements is not a DIY goal in my book. Extending way beyond them by taking different paths is. This thread seemed to go on forever with only slight improvements from all I read. Don't get me wrong as I would not have had a chance without you guys' pioneering.


    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by Barringer View Post
    So what you're saying it's worth it investing a bit more money into it and going with Bertagnis and Podiums from the get-go?
    What I am saying (since this is a DIY forum) is build your own panels utilizing there DESIGNS at a fraction of the cost.

    Leave a comment:


  • Zene
    replied
    Bar ... Isn't this thread about improving on much overpriced panels?
    I'm sorry DIY is dead because of easily available and cheap mediocre speakers and in most cases streaming. I won't be able to compare mine with the Bert's or even other DML's. I do believe I can best most. As I said earlier I don't believe in a one speaker full range system even with a sub. Mine will fly in the face of 90% of these postings. It's to be quad speaker/amped. Cost around $100 for the panels and exciters.


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  • Barringer
    replied
    So what you're saying it's worth it investing a bit more money into it and going with Bertagnis and Podiums from the get-go?

    Leave a comment:


  • Zene
    replied
    Good, Unb ... didn't want to try do mass anyway, but will isolate brace from frame as best as I can. Getting anxious to hear. Slow going as I always build for as much experimential ability as possible, such as easily changeable panels and exciters. I do not build prototype sample, disguard and try another.

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