DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

[captainjack115]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

My only regret is my small listening space, the panels would have more bloom if I could get back from them. All in all, certainly worth the slight hardship.

As an afterthought: Here's a photo of my small listening room with the DML panels leaning against the MMG's.

Jack

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Great points Capn'. My feelings are that the DML panels are not technically better than even most modestly priced designs available on this forum, the presentation is different than any other speak format and will not be everyone's cup of tea, XPS and any other panel material I've listened to has some type of coloration associated with the material used... they are not the smoothest without EQ (not objectionable w/o). But of the nearly 100 sets of speakers I've built over the last 30 years, I do believe I've gotten more enjoyment from them than any other that have come before.

Wouldn't say that if I listened at higher level and mostly rock and pop as I did when I was in my 20's. But as you point out.... jazz, acoustic and other naturally recorded/live recordings are just a joy to listen too. Even addicting on some recordings. My open baffles are still just sitting there unused with no real plan's yet to replace the DML panels.

[buke9]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Just built a stand for one panel to check out how it works. . I think I need to get two going to really evaluate the sound. It has a lot oh HF had to EQ it almost all the way down on my NAD 7125. I used the loud comp and bass eq buttons and the bass wasn't half bad. Only when a song had a lot of bass did it start to go crazy. That was with the Ultra. I just got my replacement Thruster today and switched them out. The Thruster was not as bad with too much HF I could listen to it flat on the treble and bass with the loud and bass eq on. I listened to some 24 bit 96 string quartet on the pair with the other sitting on the couch leaned up against my main speakers and that didn't sound bad at all not at all. I agree with rmeinke the sound is totally different from speakers and gets some getting used to. This size sounds pretty good to me but I think I need more dampening on them and maybe a little smaller panel. I got some subs to put with them. I need to get another 2x to build another frame to check this out but I think I might just sand these down again and re-coat them a little heavier. I didn't have tall enough 2x to make the stand I wanted so I got what I got. I have lots of Walnut wood to build frames with some that was cut before I was born and some that I knocked down about 8 years ago that I had cut by our mechanics dad that has a saw mill and has been drying that long. Just wondering if this a decent wood to build myself a center speaker with or is MDF better? I have a bit of 70 year old Cherry(when it was cut) too but not too much also. I'm thinking I just might be getting myself into something I can't get out of : 0. If my AC unit didn't just die I would be all in. Nice that I have 4 exciters and more panels to build. I love this forum.

[buke9]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I can't post a pic to this thread and I don't know why. I have tried many times and it just won't let me.

[buke9]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

[buke9]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I have tried this three times and now it works and go figure.

[buke9]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Here we go again. Thruster died after about 4 minutes of play. That is the new one. I was playing only 1/3 volume or less from my FIIO x1 into the aux channel of my NAD 7125 and it just quit. I play my Ultras from the same system and they are fine . I have run the Ultras from the same system and they run fine. I hook this one up and now its dead. My NAD is only 25 watts per channel and did not crank it up. I hooked up my other Thruster to the same same side and after about 4 minutes it killed it. How can it kill it and not hurt the Ultras?

[captainjack115]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I can't post a pic to this thread and I don't know why. I have tried many times and it just won't let me.

I had the same problem.

I found that my photo file was too large, if you keep it under 1 meg you should be OK.

Jack

[captainjack115]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Here we go again. Thruster died after about 4 minutes of play. That is the new one. I was playing only 1/3 volume or less from my FIIO x1 into the aux channel of my NAD 7125 and it just quit. I play my Ultras from the same system and they are fine . I have run the Ultras from the same system and they run fine. I hook this one up and now its dead. My NAD is only 25 watts per channel and did not crank it up. I hooked up my other Thruster to the same same side and after about 4 minutes it killed it. How can it kill it and not hurt the Ultras?

I had a Thruster die on me as well.

I think it's time for P.E. to look into this issue. Normally these exciters can take a pretty good amount of power without fail, but when they do it's with very little power.

Jack

[trevorg]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Just curious what kinda of spl output these panels are producing? These things would make a neat set of office speakers if hung in the corners of the walls with string....

[captainjack115]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Great points Capn'. My feelings are that the DML panels are not technically better than even most modestly priced designs available on this forum, the presentation is different than any other speak format and will not be everyone's cup of tea, XPS and any other panel material I've listened to has some type of coloration associated with the material used... they are not the smoothest without EQ (not objectionable w/o). But of the nearly 100 sets of speakers I've built over the last 30 years, I do believe I've gotten more enjoyment from them than any other that have come before.

Wouldn't say that if I listened at higher level and mostly rock and pop as I did when I was in my 20's. But as you point out.... jazz, acoustic and other naturally recorded/live recordings are just a joy to listen too. Even addicting on some recordings. My open baffles are still just sitting there unused with no real plan's yet to replace the DML panels.

I spent the better part of 20 years building and designing ESL's with a modicum of success at trying to make them full range, ESL's need EQ as well, big time!
If you sit in front of them in a sweet spot, they sound great, other than that you lose imaging immediately, not a fan of curved either. Lots of issues like trying to keep capacitance to a minimum or risk losing high frequencies, high voltage arcing, the list goes on. Going back some 60 years I helped my Dad make all kinds of enclosures in the kitchen, much to the dismay of my Mother.
I like being able to sit or stand anywhere in a room and listen to music without being tied down to a specific sweet spot. In years past I directed my guests to sit in said sweet spot to hear my speakers in all their glory. Most of them were not audiophiles and thought I was a little nuts upon my insistence for sitting on that well worn spot on my couch.

You're right, technically the DML panels aren't that great, but as we all know they do one thing so well that in most instances we can forgive their transgressions. At my age my ears aren't nearly what they used to be and it's a struggle to hear beyond 12 or 13,000hz.

Needless to say, I'm finding all this to be great fun. It's an ongoing learning curve, but I think there's a little Thomas Edison in all of us.

Side thought!

Most of the guys over at Audio Circle stopped using spines, I just wondered why, It seems that a spine would after all offer some support against a recoil effect, especially if one is trying for as much bass as possible. I'm using subs for bass at the moment, so I have less desire for physical reinforcement in a panel. Maybe I've been reading too much about the Podiums and it's just in my head lately.

Jack

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Just curious what kinda of spl output these panels are producing? These things would make a neat set of office speakers if hung in the corners of the walls with string....

I have not played a panel to max output but can say that they are efficient. A 4 ohm Dayton Audio exciter (Thurster or Ultra) is roughly 91db so they have very reasonable output. If you cut the low frequencies they can play quite loud. exactly what SPL's I do not know.

Probably would want some sound absorbing material on the back side of the panels. They do not sound very good close to walls. Just a little absorption goes a long way to improving the sound quality in that application.

[buke9]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Is there some test I can use to see why the NAD kills my Thrusters? I an reluctant to play any thing from them now. It is just the left side that killed the Thrusters. All I have is a multimeter is there a way to check if there is something wrong from one side or the other? I don't have any other amps that can do 4 ohm stuff other than the Hafler Ta 1100 and like I said with out eq I can't listen to them. I might be up for buying a equalizer to put in the chain. Anyone have recommendations on one? There has to be something going on with the NAD as I have run the Ultras thru it no problem. I am reluctant to try anymore exciters from it for now. Any ideas?

[captainjack115]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Is there some test I can use to see why the NAD kills my Thrusters? I an reluctant to play any thing from them now. It is just the left side that killed the Thrusters. All I have is a multimeter is there a way to check if there is something wrong from one side or the other? I don't have any other amps that can do 4 ohm stuff other than the Hafler Ta 1100 and like I said with out eq I can't listen to them. I might be up for buying a equalizer to put in the chain. Anyone have recommendations on one? There has to be something going on with the NAD as I have run the Ultras thru it no problem. I am reluctant to try anymore exciters from it for now. Any ideas?

You can use your multimeter set to D.C., there should be no offset voltage present, except for a few millivolts.
Most amps have some sort of protection circuit to keep D.C from getting to the speakers.

Jack

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I spent the better part of 20 years building and designing ESL's with a modicum of success at trying to make them full range, ESL's need EQ as well, big time!
If you sit in front of them in a sweet spot, they sound great, other than that you lose imaging immediately, not a fan of curved either. Lots of issues like trying to keep capacitance to a minimum or risk losing high frequencies, high voltage arcing, the list goes on. Going back some 60 years I helped my Dad make all kinds of enclosures in the kitchen, much to the dismay of my Mother.
I like being able to sit or stand anywhere in a room and listen to music without being tied down to a specific sweet spot. In years past I directed my guests to sit in said sweet spot to hear my speakers in all their glory. Most of them were not audiophiles and thought I was a little nuts upon my insistence for sitting on that well worn spot on my couch.

You're right, technically the DML panels aren't that great, but as we all know they do one thing so well that in most instances we can forgive their transgressions. At my age my ears aren't nearly what they used to be and it's a struggle to hear beyond 12 or 13,000hz.

Needless to say, I'm finding all this to be great fun. It's an ongoing learning curve, but I think there's a little Thomas Edison in all of us.

Side thought!

Most of the guys over at Audio Circle stopped using spines, I just wondered why, It seems that a spine would after all offer some support against a recoil effect, especially if one is trying for as much bass as possible. I'm using subs for bass at the moment, so I have less desire for physical reinforcement in a panel. Maybe I've been reading too much about the Podiums and it's just in my head lately.

Jack

For the most part, I believe that the spline lead to voice coil to panel mis-alignments resulting in over heated and failing exciters. There was little to no performance gains from spline mounting it appeared. This was hard to ascertain as all the answers were buried in threads scatters through the thread. I asked specifically as I thought for sure that an exciter would need something to "push off" on but I got an answer similar to above.

I get it, the panels have excursion like a normal speaker and can see how the panel movement would place pressure on the exciters and also prevent the panel from making excursions. Also, something that I didn't realize until after building panels... unless the panel is lightly suspended, I can see how the energy would be transfers to the frame and therefore the frame becomes part of the reproduction chain. Can not imagine a frame adding anything positive to the sound quality. :-)

I have not tried a spline mount want to try it myself at some point. I would want a soft complaint mounting between the exciter and spline to allow some movement. Something like a large dab of silicon or ???