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DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

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  • benjicon
    replied
    I think I may revisit my shaping before I push ahead... the topic of rounded corners keeps coming up as the number one way to improve sound and I'm still early enough in the process to make the important edits.

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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Anything DML is ok to post on this topic since its all about DML Flat panel speaker love.

    Everyone has there own idea/design in mind to fit there own needs and desires, which is what makes these panels fun to build.

    For me its all about audiophile sound quality, no compromises. Everything else like aesthetics is secondary.

    Today I want to talk about ideal panel shape......When buying EPS or XPS panels they are either square or rectangle in shape....The first basic steps is to round the corners of the panels which makes the panels sound better.

    With the corners rounded its not actually a rectangle or square shape anymore but rather a sort of octagonal type of shape....When you look at the pictures of Bertagni's speakers the back side of the outer edges of the panel its shaped like a uneven octagon...I've always wondered why Bertagni would use that octagon shape instead of just using a oval (ear) shape like he did with the middle of the panel.

    Maybe Dr.Jose Bertagni knew about the sound shapes patterns at certain frequencies? Like in this video> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS67HA4YMCs

    Any who just something to ponder on.

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  • benjicon
    replied
    I should add too.. I have deviated a bit from some of the guides and recommendations I referenced, I have an aesthetic and goal in mind thats going to see me flirting with compromises that will effect the sound, I might run into mistakes or a less than desirable sound at the end of this process.. but thats the fun right ? Making mistakes along the way so I can do it better and with more knowledge next time :P

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  • benjicon
    replied
    I hope this is ok to post here. I'm not the OP for this thread but I felt it will be more useful to people that find their way to this thread than if I start another one.

    So I found some time over the weekend to start my flat panels, with the goal to make speaker panels out of the optimum material that will also let me use them to create art works on. The core challenge for me is going to be finding a balance between surface preparation and final finish with my artwork applied to it without effecting or compromising the sound quality too much.

    It seems generally accepted that the best and most cost effective material is XPS (extruded polystyrene)... Home Depot in Canada has 2'x2' panels for $8. I grabbed a couple, some sandpaper, xacto blade, wood glue. The first step was for me to shape the edges of the panels to minimize any distortion or splashiness.. this guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdkyGDqU7xA) recommended rounding the edges for best results so thats what I started with.

    Sanding is a delicate process, I used my xacto blade to bevel the edges then sanded them gently until they were about where I wanted them. I used 220 grit and not a lot of pressure, if you press hard while sanding this stuff it starts ripping holes in it .. so go slow.



    Gave them a rinse, let them dry and coated them with a couple of coats of glue / water mix.. Once they dried after the second coat they were a little toothy, so I gave them a light sand with 300 grit sand paper, then I made the mistake of giving them a quick rinse with water to get all the dust off.. this reactivated the wood glue so I ended up with very sticky panels that I couldn't stand anywhere for a a while til it re-cured.







    This is after the wood glue water has re-cured, surface it nice and even and ready for painting.

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  • Limbo
    replied
    I have one exciter on a standup bass (double bass) and another on an acoustic guitar, both on floor stands in a L/R stereo configuration. Sounds outstanding for classic music, especially string quartets and chamber music. Also sounds nice for instrumental jazz. What really made me smile was listening to the classic "Dueling Banjos." It was recorded and mixed with true stereo separation (one instrument per channel). It feels like a ghosts are playing the instruments while you are looking at them, the sound comes through so well, and the separation is so exact. I augment the low end with a small subwoofer for other types of music.

    This solution is not ideal for vocals. The voice components have too much echo within the instrument body. It may help if I play with the placement of the exciters. I plan on adding a couple flat panels with exciters and drive them from the Front-B outputs on my beefy Marantz SR7500. This will bring out the vocals and improve the sound of rock music. I can turn off the A speakers (string instruments) when listening to rock music.

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  • Roadsterdriver
    replied
    Originally posted by Vinaudi View Post

    I am also interested in ways to power them at the source so a signal can be pushed wirelessly.

    Ideas?
    Same here. This looks like a possible integrated solution. Probably Lo-fi, but I’m going to try it out for non-critical listening games rooms.
    https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...mote--300-3820

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Originally posted by Roadsterdriver View Post

    Oh, thin material...interesting design.

    Do do you have any pics
    I don't have any pics right now but my panels design is very similar to Bertagni's design > https://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/6/...1777455_tp.jpg

    Leave a comment:


  • benjicon
    replied
    dawnut Thanks for the tips on the water based spray paint, I'll keep them in mind as an alternative option. Definitely viable for the artwork.

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  • benjicon
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    Coating the whole panel of XPS will not only add some weight to it but dampen the panel reducing volume out put and sound quality....unless you can dilute the epoxy to where its similar to the 50/50 water glue mixture....That would probably require some type of thinner like acetone or laquer but those type of solvents do not do well on polystyrene due to there corrosive properties.
    Thanks for the suggestions and nuggets of knowledge. There is a new type of resin available called "Art Resin" very low toxicity and easy to work with. I can thin it out by placing each of the parts (2 part epoxy) in a hot water bath which will reduce the viscosity of the combined solution. I don't know yet if it will match the viscosity of a 50/50 wood glue solution.. I'll be sure to share the results.

    Leave a comment:


  • dawnut
    replied
    Originally posted by Roadsterdriver View Post
    Acoustic guitars, awesome. I thought of that too. Glad someone did it. Guitars should be roughly same range as human voice. Interesting.
    Trying to get the whole setup together pairing them with a small sub, when done I'll dig out a couple of my mic's and try to capture some decent sound video of them to share.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roadsterdriver
    replied
    Acoustic guitars, awesome. I thought of that too. Glad someone did it. Guitars should be roughly same range as human voice. Interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Roadsterdriver
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    My designs are basically a modified version of Bertagni loudspeakers....Standard Design foundation would require a frame that would hold the diaphragm material in place with a spline to hold the exciter magnet in place as one unit like a conventional speaker basket similar to a BMR driver.

    Material of choice is High density (EPS) Expanded Polystyrene. Preferred thickness 1/2-1/4 inch.....size ideal around 20-24inch X 16-18inch.

    Frost King rubber foam to attach diapharam material to frame.
    Oh, thin material...interesting design.

    Do do you have any pics

    Leave a comment:


  • dawnut
    replied
    Originally posted by benjicon View Post

    Love this thread.. SOOO much to digest.

    Do you know if anyone has tried coating XPS panels in a thin layer of epoxy resin ? If I had to guess this might add a little more weight to the panel, but 'm curious if its a viable option. I am an artist and considering putting artwork directly on the XPS panel, if its been tried with no success I'll reconsider my options. If no ones tried I'll roll my sleeves up and have a go.
    An alternative could be a water based rattle can spray paint. I know Krylon makes a water based spray paint just for plastics that you could give a thin even base coat with. They also make a primer just for foam products. https://www.krylon.com/products/craft-foam-primer/ That might be a viable alternative to the glue/water mix.. they also make a spray gesso https://www.krylon.com/products/gesso-spray/ . One of the nice things about working with the XPS panels are that they are inexpensive enough to experiment with. Grab a 4'x8' piece cut up some panels and go for it. I used regular spray paint on one of my experiments but you must keep the can a good ways away from the panel and use very light coats or the solvents will eat into the XPS.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Coating the whole panel of XPS will not only add some weight to it but dampen the panel reducing volume out put and sound quality....unless you can dilute the epoxy to where its similar to the 50/50 water glue mixture....That would probably require some type of thinner like acetone or laquer but those type of solvents do not do well on polystyrene due to there corrosive properties.

    Leave a comment:


  • benjicon
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post

    "You would still need to do the basics like sanding panel and treating the panel with 50/50-70/30 water glue ratio and rounding the corners painting the front side etc. you can read up on that on this topic."
    Love this thread.. SOOO much to digest.

    Do you know if anyone has tried coating XPS panels in a thin layer of epoxy resin ? If I had to guess this might add a little more weight to the panel, but 'm curious if its a viable option. I am an artist and considering putting artwork directly on the XPS panel, if its been tried with no success I'll reconsider my options. If no ones tried I'll roll my sleeves up and have a go.

    Leave a comment:

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