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DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

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  • dawnut
    replied
    I'm a big fan of the DML, and have actually read through this whole thread. Being an old guitar player/builder I tried something a little different. Did a pair of dreadnought size acoustic guitars with the exciters mounted under the bridge area. I use these routed from my computer through a 6n3 YuanJing preamp and an older modified Lepai 2020A+ I'm using these in my 15'x20' sound room so volume doesn't have to go that loud.. Did my first listening session about a week ago with one mounted on a floor guitar stand and the other just propped against a chair. Amazing sound with details high and midrange that I have missed even with the PreSonus Eris E8 studio monitors I use with my DAW. Heavy bass at louder volume will get a little muddy and boomy so am working on a solution to that. with inline high pass and a small subwoofer. Still need to install my 1/4" strap peg jacks and hang them from the ceiling. I'm convinced these will be the speakers I'll be listening to just to relax by.

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  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    It worked out pretty good...Still some kinks that need to adjust but all in all its to my preference.. After using 4 different conventional cone subwoofers I kept on going back to my DML sub.....A DML sub will not hit as hard, go as low or play as loud as a conventional cone subwoofer because of there limited pistonic movement....The reason why I prefer the DML sub is because IMO it blends the best with my DML panels keeping that DML signature sound....The DML sub IMO is also very articulate and detailed unlike some one note subs.

    My designs are basically a modified version of Bertagni loudspeakers....Standard Design foundation would require a frame that would hold the diaphragm material in place with a spline to hold the exciter magnet in place as one unit like a conventional speaker basket similar to a BMR driver.

    Material of choice is High density (EPS) Expanded Polystyrene. Preferred thickness 1/2-1/4 inch.....size ideal around 20-24inch X 16-18inch.

    Frost King rubber foam to attach diapharam material to frame.

    Driver recommended for sub application> https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-4-oh--295-240 https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...4-ohm--295-238 If you need a 8ohm>https://www.parts-express.com/tecton...citer--297-206

    Any type of sub amp. One with a 30hz boost or eq is a good option to have as most exciters low frequencies start dropping at 100hz

    Tips> DML sub panel should be placed horizontally on the ground and inbetween the Left and right main/front channel speakers.

    Using some type of acoustic foam pads like Auralex isolation pads under the DML sub will tighten up and increase bass response.

    Using XRK's (DIYAUDIO forum) foam core enclosure on the DML sub will also increase bass.

    You would still need to do the basics like sanding panel and treating the panel with 50/50-70/30 water glue ratio and rounding the corners painting the front side etc. you can read up on that on this topic.

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  • Roadsterdriver
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    I just finished my last dml flat panel today which was the sub panel.......Sub is 21inchX16inch
    How did the sub workout? How did you build it? Material, driver, etc?

    Leave a comment:


  • Vinaudi
    replied
    I am interested in DML. I would like to explore various hanging options for XPS. I am thinking of a free standing solution.

    I am also interested in ways to power them at the source so a signal can be pushed wirelessly.

    Ideas?

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    This new Lepai 2.1 amp is what I needed for my (BASTAT) DML satellite/sub combo panels.

    https://www.parts-express.com/lepai-...3118--310-4002

    Leave a comment:


  • nnjones
    replied
    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    You seem to be on the right track.....Best results I have found is to mount them to a spline/brace attached to a frame....if mounted securely very little energy is transferred to the frame as the voice coil will push against the magnet which will be stabilized in place by the brace and almost all of the energy will be transferred to the panel....you can use silicone or epoxy glue....I prefer epoxy.
    Cool, that makes sense to me, thanks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kornbread
    replied
    I eventually hung carboard panels from the ceiling with string before abandoning the experiment. It started with blue insulation board (xps) mounted in a frame, don't remember what size, but big. Eventually wound up cutting the edge of the foam board leaving only small tabs holding the foam board into the frame. For the most part it resonated freely from the frame. The freer the foam became, the more bass it produced. The exciter was mounted to a brace running behind the foam board which also increased bass output. Most of my experiment, including measurements, and the model number of the exciters which, at times, wouldn't last long enough to get a measurement, should still be on this thread minus pictures that Photobucket hosted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    You seem to be on the right track.....Best results I have found is to mount them to a spline/brace attached to a frame....if mounted securely very little energy is transferred to the frame as the voice coil will push against the magnet which will be stabilized in place by the brace and almost all of the energy will be transferred to the panel....you can use silicone or epoxy glue....I prefer epoxy.
    Last edited by Unbiasedsound; 10-14-2018, 09:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • nnjones
    replied
    Hi all,

    I've been reading the threads on DML panels and am thinking about building some.

    Here is what I have envisioned:

    Dayton DAEX30HESF-4 drivers, 2 per channel in series, two panels per side vertically stacked (EPS or XPS?) 1" thick, 24" x 32", corners rounded, sanded and treated, mounted in a frame using foam weather stripping insulation as a suspension.

    Should I mount the driver frames onto a spline/back brace, leave them free standing, or screw them down to the foam panels? It would make sense to me to fix them to a spline/brace so more energy is transferred to the coil/panel, and they would not have coil sag, but mounting them would cause more energy to be transferred to the frame (maybe silicone them to the brace?)

    The rest of the details I'll work out around the crossover/DSP but any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

    I'm located in Fox Cities, WI area and noticed there are others that posted on this forum that are nearby, it would be great to hear from you.

    Regards,
    Nate

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Found a video of some old school Yamaha speakers that utilized DML/BMR technology for the bass and combined them with the conventional cone type of drivers for the mids and highs.

    I am planning on duplicating those speakers in the near future.....Did yawl see how huge that exciter transducer is on that bass panel?....Now that is the type of huge/robust exciter I wish Dayton would make.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNGsFul8sXI&t=172s


    I just read that someone on Audiokarma said that Yamaha licensed the technology from Bertagni (BES)...no wonder the shape of the bass driver is shaped very similar to Bertagnis.

    Leave a comment:


  • panoramer
    replied
    Originally posted by Evilmonstertruck View Post

    Damn. That sucks. Like I said i was just trying to imitate those JMC's, that cost $8k!!! They do use there own type of exciter so maybe that's where the difference is. But for that money they have to sound good.
    Maggies have always been a dream of mine to own. Maybe one day.

    Thanks for the response.

    Hi. I have done a lot of research about the JMC soundboard. Yes they use 8 of them. The ones I saw in the video I posted above are 15 Watts. The producer is http://mechakustik.de/exciter.html Elac brand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    Since last nov. I have been experimenting and combining XRK's foam board enclosures to my DML panels and it has improved the performance of all my panels especially in the bass region. Who would of thunk to use EPS foam to increase bass response. Props to XRK for this technique.

    Leave a comment:


  • Unbiasedsound
    replied
    I have used the Balsa and bass hobby wood that is tall and narrow around 2-3ft. but only 4 inches width and 1/8-1/16th thickness....They lack bass so it would best be used as a sat with subwoofer.....To achieve decent amounts of bass the panel would need to be at least 12"X12".

    Are bass and low frequency sound enhanced when using larger panels, SURE, but bigger is not always better unless you know how to properly utilize it in ones design....Too big of a panel will make the bass sound muddy and sluggish.

    In my opinion, DML/Bending wave technology is like throwing a pebble in a pond and watching the ripples flow to the edges....Bigger the pond the longer it takes for the ripples to reach the edge, the longer the bass travels the muddier/sluggish it will get if the panels are too big because it will take that much longer to reach the edge before stopping.

    Treble vibrations are weaker then bass vibrations so the bigger the panel/pond the weaker the treble vibrations get when it reaches the edges hence the diffused sound....the smaller the panel the more focus and pronounced the treble becomes as it has way less area to travel hence the reason why most conventional treble drivers are "SMALL".
    Last edited by Unbiasedsound; 08-04-2018, 06:28 AM.

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  • ameuba10
    replied
    has anyone tried it on a tall narrow board similar to a tower?


    also, looking at daytons buyers guide it states

    "Bass and low frequency sound are enhanced greatly when using larger panels or increased areas of substrate. Additionally, using a heavier substrate will allow deeper bass to be achieved, but at the expense of reduced treble output."

    With that being said, could one design a board with many perpendicular boards (think heatsink) to create a "subwoofer?"

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronin
    replied
    Originally posted by captainjack115 View Post
    Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

    I made some panels out of aluminum sheeting of few years ago, stuck some damping on the back. Not bad sound, good highs, less efficient though.
    Captain-- I'd love to know details. About how much less efficient? Size? Thickness of aluminum and EPS backing? Which exciters?

    Leave a comment:

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