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**Gary.M** · 12-07-2015, 04:16 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

"This is exactly it. The thin leads from the exciter to voice coil breaks. I have had better luck with the Thruster than the Ultra but they both appear to suffer from this issue. The leads are solid copper and not flexible,woven tinsel leads like we see on the DAEX30HESF-4. "

Seriously? Thats just nuts. No-one makes any sort of loudspeaker driver with solid leads instead of braided. Its just guaranteed to break. Hopefully all of the returns will make them rethink and fix this.

**rmeinke** · 12-07-2015, 04:29 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I was told that they were working with the factory on the construction of the Ultras and hope the Thrusters too. The Thrusters also sound very good on XPS and Ply.

I'm going to try the DAEX30HESF next... looks like it's constructed wel and should be robust...

**Kornbread** · 12-07-2015, 04:40 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by rmeinke View Post

I had to laugh a little Kornbread... your first panel was solidly clamped between a solid wood frame now on this one seems to float in the air with strings and is as little damped as possible me thinks. :-)

All good learning though...

IMO, allowing the first exp panel to move more freely vs solidly mounted helped somewhat even out frequency response, but, it seem the largest factor in evening out frequency response was gluing the exciter to a brace.

How do you hold the exciter solidly and let the panel sit in free air?

If time allows and this one keeps playing I have to figure out a way to mount the cardboard solidly enough it stays in a neutral (not pulling, up, down, back, etc.) position in relation to a solidly mounted exciter.

Yes, the exp frames may get re-purposed and something resembling the first exp panel 'with tabs' may arise.

It might also help if someone *hint* would model that size cardboard, snap a screenshot of the null points, so the tabs could be placed more accurately.

The lacquer has not dried completely yet, after it stops stinking it should be dry and I do expect some change in response.

**Gary.M** · 12-07-2015, 05:30 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Anyone tried the Techtonic Elements TEAX25C10-8/HS? Less power, but the leads are exposed and look like they might last.

**Kornbread** · 12-07-2015, 06:31 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Gary.M View Post

Anyone tried the Techtonic Elements TEAX25C10-8/HS? Less power, but the leads are exposed and look like they might last.

PE has this, more power ??? Supposed to handle 20 watts. Tectonic Elements TEAX32C20-8 32mm Self Supported Exciter 8 Ohm

The frog solves having to support the panel to keep the panel in a neutral position related to the solid mounted exciter. They both have woven leads. Power handling is only 10 watts. Tectonic Elements TEAX25C10-8/SP 25mm High Power 8 Ohm Frog Exciter

**rmeinke** · 12-07-2015, 09:30 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Gary.M View Post

Anyone tried the Techtonic Elements TEAX25C10-8/HS? Less power, but the leads are exposed and look like they might last.

I have 2 pairs of the TEAX25C10-8/SP (will be taking off the plastic housing) ready for a 2 panel/side array... my next build actually and hope to make some good progress this weekend so hope to report back fairly soon.

**Gary.M** · 12-07-2015, 09:39 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Kornbread View Post

PE has this, more power ??? Supposed to handle 20 watts. Tectonic Elements TEAX32C20-8 32mm Self Supported Exciter 8 Ohm

Yes I looked at that one but it has two concentric rings that mount, one to the body, the other to the driven element. Not sure how that would work to excite the panels we are using.

The frog version is the same as the one I listed but with the plastic frog housing added.

**Gary.M** · 12-07-2015, 09:40 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by rmeinke View Post

I have 2 pairs of the TEAX25C10-8/SP (will be taking off the plastic housing) ready for a 2 panel/side array... my next build actually and hope to make some good progress this weekend so hope to report back fairly soon.

OK, I wait with interest. These could be used as a pair per panel placed close to each other at the appropriate location on the panel.

**rmeinke** · 12-07-2015, 09:45 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Kornbread View Post

PE has this, more power ??? Supposed to handle 20 watts. Tectonic Elements TEAX32C20-8 32mm Self Supported Exciter 8 Ohm

The frog solves having to support the panel to keep the panel in a neutral position related to the solid mounted exciter. They both have woven leads. Power handling is only 10 watts. Tectonic Elements TEAX25C10-8/SP 25mm High Power 8 Ohm Frog Exciter

I always wonder about self supported exciters?!? Has to have an impact on sound quality and freq. response... and it would likely not be good... !?!?!?

**rmeinke** · 12-08-2015, 10:44 AM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Gary.M View Post

OK, I wait with interest. These could be used as a pair per panel placed close to each other at the appropriate location on the panel.

I am still sticking to the purist approach with 1 exciter per panel but 2 panels per side to get the increased surface area.

Have never tested with multiple exciters per panel but technically there will be cancellations at higher frequencies so have always adhered to 1 per panel. Ahhh, so many different configurations and approaches to test that its hard to try them all... maybe one of these days I'll try a classic Monacor placement with multiple exciters!

**Kornbread** · 12-08-2015, 05:00 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by rmeinke View Post

I was told that they were working with the factory on the construction of the Ultras and hope the Thrusters too. The Thrusters also sound very good on XPS and Ply.

I'm going to try the DAEX30HESF next... looks like it's constructed wel and should be robust...

So far PE has been good about replacing, including shipping. On a product that sells for $20, they are probably loosing money doing this.

In a recent reply from PE, "Dayton is aware of the issue that was reported about the leads and as far as I know they are looking into it."

Hopefully it gets fixed.

What about modifications of the DAEX32EP-4? I doubt it's possible, but is there a way to place a woven lead between the terminal and voice coil?

Just an FYI; Picked up one of their Dayton Audio DTA-120 Class T Mini Amplifier 60 WPC for part of boy's Christmas. Of course it had to be tested upon arrival; I don't give, or sell, audio products that don't meet my approval to anyone.

The thing is sweet.

Currently there resides a pair of Apogee Calipers, Carver Amazing Loudspeakers, 2 pairs of NHT 2.5i's, pair of NHT super zeros, Wharfdale Opal30, Mirage FR5. Amps include Acurus a200x3, Carver av705x, NAD 2100, Marants sr6400ho <yes it's an av integrated but it still sounds pretty darn good.

The amp mated beautifully with the NHT 2.5i, Wharfdale, and Mirage speakers, sounding way better than a cheap little munchkin amp should. Never tried it on the Apogee or Carver, they are notoriously hard on amps and with only a realistic 30 watts per channel it just wasn't going to end well. If anything the amp erred on the polite side in the treble but had a tight, taught, clean and low bottom end that belied its size, the mids could be very slightly recessed but overall great, a relaxed easy to listen to type of sound. Placing performers anywhere in the sound-stage was not a problem here.

This would be an ideal amp to drive these panels ... or whatever you have.

Home

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dta-120-class-t-mini-amplifier-60-wpc--300-3800

Dayton Audio DTA-120 Class T Mini Amplifier 60 WPCEverything You Need in a Mini AmpDayton Audio has revamped the popular DTA-100 mini amplifier with an all-new design that improves on every part of the DTA-100's performance. The result is the Dayton Audio DTA-120 Class T digital amplifier. It's everything you need in a mini amp, delivering the performance of enormous hi-fi gear, and smart features you'll wonder how you lived without... and thanks to the space-saving design, it fits and installs practically anywhere! Big-Amplifier PowerThe DTA-120 amplifier delivers the power of a monster amplifier, but in a tiny package. Thanks to Tripath's proprietary Class T technology, plus a robust Dual Parallel BTL configuration, the DTA-120 tackles the toughest speaker loads with ease -- while delivering the sound quality and low distortion of a conventional Class AB amplifier. The dual-power-chip design delivers 60 watts (RMS) per channel of efficient power into an 4 ohm load (up to 120 watts total), and 40 watts (RMS) into 8 ohms - continuously, with no reduction in output. That means powerful bass and clear output that keeps on going, even with the most demanding speakers. Convenient, Small SizeWith the DTA-120 amplifier, you get the most power possible from the smallest footprint imaginable. At under 3-1/2" wide, 2-1/4" tall, and 6" deep, the DTA-120 delivers more power per cubic inch than any other mini amplifier. All this is thanks to the revolutionary, cool-running Class T digital PWM amplifier technology and the extruded aluminum heatsink case. The robust external switching power supply hides out of sight. But since it can supply high current with even higher peaks, the DTA-120 can easily drive HUGE speakers. High-End Features and QualityThe DTA-120 amplifier delivers the features you expect in a much more expensive amplifier, at a fraction of the size and price. The housing is black-anodized aluminum, with a thick machined faceplate and a silky-smooth volume control. The rear panel features high-quality, gold-plated RCA inputs and shielded, gold-plated 5-way binding posts that accept any type of speaker cable. A high-current DC power jack is also used to ensure maximum power transfer to the amp. On the front panel, there's a second 3.5 mm audio input jack, as well as a 1/4" headphone jack that receives its signal from a separate, high-quality headphone amplifier stage controlled by the main volume knob. (3.5 mm to 1/4" adapter included.) Works With ALL Your SourcesIn a world of changing digital and wireless specifications, the high-quality analog design of the DTA-120 remains virtually future-proof. Just connect it to any device with a headphone output jack and begin enjoying powerful, high-quality audio through your own speakers. Short signal paths inside the amplifier preserve all the quality of the input signal, and the DTA-120 automatically switches from the rear inputs to the front input when connected. No switches to flip, and just one knob. The DTA-120 is the perfect complement to your smartphone, tablet, laptop, PC, television, or any other audio source. Head-Fi Friendly DesignThe DTA-120 is the ultimate desktop amplifier. Not only can it drive even the smallest and least-efficient speakers to almost painful levels without strain, making it perfect for powering desktop mini-monitor speakers, but it also offers a separate solid-state headphone amplifier stage capable of powering even the most demanding headphones to high listening levels while preserving clarity, detail, and a refined sonic character. However you like to listen at your desk, the DTA-120 is the perfect partner.Specifications: • Output power: 40W RMS x 2 @ 8 ohms, 60W RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms • Total harmonic distortion (THD): <0.1% @ 1W, <10% @ 60W • Frequency response: 20 - 20,000 Hz (+0/-1 dB at 8 ohms, +0/-3 dB at 4 ohms) • Signal-to-noise ratio: 103 dB, A weighted • Input sensitivity: 680 mV via rear input • Inputs: Rear stereo RCA, front 3.5 mm stereo mini-jack • Outputs: dual shielded, gold-plated mini binding posts (banana plugs accepted) • Power supply: Input: 100~240 VAC, 50/60 Hz, 1.6A; Output: 24 VDC, 4.75A continuous, with 2.5 mm DC plug • Power efficiency: >85% • Dimensions: Faceplate dimensions: 1-29/32" H x 3-3/8" W x 5/16" D • Body dimensions: 1-3/4" H x 3-1/8" W x 4-5/8" D • Overall dimensions: 2" H x 3.375" W x 6.25" D (including feet, faceplate, and volume knob).c|net Review - March 15, 2014Front Panel:1. Power LED Blue power LED indicates the unit is receiving power and is fully operational.2. Power/Volume Control This control turns on the unit and adjusts the volume level of the amplifier. When the unit is turned on the power LED will become fully illuminated. To turn the unit off, turn the control fully counter clockwise until it "clicks" to the off position. It is normal for the power LED to slowly dim and then go completely out when the unit is first turned off.3. Headphone Jack The DTA-120 also doubles as a headphone amplifier that will drive any headphone easily and delivers colossal sound stage and effortless dynamic range. The 1/4" stereo jack allows connection of larger home and studio-style headphones. An adapter is also provided so that smaller 3.5 mm personnel style headphones can be used.Note:When headphones are plugged into the headphone jack the speaker output connections are disconnected.4. 3.5 mm Audio Input The unit features a convenient front mounted 3.5 mm stereo input for quick connection of iPods, MP3 players, and other portable audio devices. A 6" 3.5 mm coiled cable that stretches to 12" is included.Note: When a device is plugged into the 3.5 mm audio input the rear mounted RCA input jacks are disconnected. This allows the user to permanently connect a device to the rear RCA audio inputs and switch to a portable device by simply plugging into the front mounted input.Rear Panel:5. Power Connection The DTA-120 operates on 24 VDC and MUST be used with a power supply that can provide at least 4.75A. A world compatible (100~240V) switch mode power supply is included with the unit and is supplied with a USA style cord. To operate in other countries an appropriate power cord will need to be purchased. The power connection on the unit is a 2.5 mm x 5.5 mm jack with center pin being positive.Note: If an inappropriate power supply is used and the unit is damaged, the warranty will be voided.6. Speaker Outputs The speaker output connections utilize high current binding posts that are spaced on 3/4" centers and are compatible with standard double banana plug connectors (sold separately). The connections are color coded for easy polarity identification. High quality screw-on banana plugs that will accept 10AWG-18AWG wire are included.7. RCA-Type Audio Input RCA-type line level input for permanent connection of larger devices such as CD players, PCs, and DVD players. An RCA to 3.5 mm adapter is also provided for added connection flexibility.Note: When a device is plugged into the front mounted 3.5 mm input, the RCA input jacks are disconnected.

**rmeinke** · 12-09-2015, 11:05 AM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Kornbread View Post

So far PE has been good about replacing, including shipping. On a product that sells for $20, they are probably loosing money doing this.

In a recent reply from PE, "Dayton is aware of the issue that was reported about the leads and as far as I know they are looking into it."

Hopefully it gets fixed.

What about modifications of the DAEX32EP-4? I doubt it's possible, but is there a way to place a woven lead between the terminal and voice coil?

I find absolutely no issues with PE support... they have stood behind all of there products each and every time and the reason I get absolutely everything I can from them.

**rmeinke** · 12-09-2015, 11:38 AM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Originally posted by Kornbread View Post

Just an FYI; Picked up one of their Dayton Audio DTA-120 Class T Mini Amplifier 60 WPC for part of boy's Christmas. Of course it had to be tested upon arrival; I don't give, or sell, audio products that don't meet my approval to anyone.

The thing is sweet.

Currently there resides a pair of Apogee Calipers, Carver Amazing Loudspeakers, 2 pairs of NHT 2.5i's, pair of NHT super zeros, Wharfdale Opal30, Mirage FR5. Amps include Acurus a200x3, Carver av705x, NAD 2100, Marants sr6400ho <yes it's an av integrated but it still sounds pretty darn good.

The amp mated beautifully with the NHT 2.5i, Wharfdale, and Mirage speakers, sounding way better than a cheap little munchkin amp should. Never tried it on the Apogee or Carver, they are notoriously hard on amps and with only a realistic 30 watts per channel it just wasn't going to end well. If anything the amp erred on the polite side in the treble but had a tight, taught, clean and low bottom end that belied its size, the mids could be very slightly recessed but overall great, a relaxed easy to listen to type of sound. Placing performers anywhere in the sound-stage was not a problem here.

This would be an ideal amp to drive these panels ... or whatever you have.

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...-wpc--300-3800

Hey KB, welcome to class D amps my friend. I have a modded Sure amp board that bested all of my vintage amps including my Densen Beat B100, a Sumo Ulysses (I really like Sumo amps have owned or auditioned many over the years) and a host of other vintage amps that have come through my listening room. As a matter of fact, it was only until recently that its been displaced as my best sounding amp. I picked up a near perfect Luxman LV-105U and have to say that I am very impressed with the Luxman and will be looking for more Luxman to try.

But have to say I've been hesitating buying amps over the last year+ because these little class D board sound SOOOoooooo good. I've had the Lepai LP7498E but that was not impressive (smooth but somewhat dark, lacking in clarity and bass definition) as I had hoped; especially considering the Stereophile Class D recommendation. I will have to try the DTA-120 sometime... always looking for inexpensive audio component to recommend to friends and family so will be adding this one to my list.

**rmeinke** · 12-09-2015, 12:11 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Re-posting from the NXT Thread over at AC...

NOTE: Soundcard and mic settings in REW were lost (back to defaults) and as a result the measurements are NOT accurate.

Measurements at 1 Meter with panels pulled out into the room. REW + UMIK-1 from MiniDSP.

These taken with the same power level comparing the Thruster exciter on 24"x30" XPS and birch ply.

I'm surprised by the sensitivity differences; thought it would be closer:

Changed the power levels so the freq. response levels matches fairly close for comparison purposes. Green = 1/8" Ply | Purple = 1" XPS:
The ply is not as smooth as I thought it would be but is more extended and nearly on par if not smoother in relation to the mid-range.

Distortion plots:
XPS 1M - Smoother distortion plot but slightly higher than the ply.

Ply 1M - Matching level. A tad lower in dist but larger spikes.

Under construction... will add more measurements and comments...

**rmeinke** · 12-09-2015, 02:57 PM

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Another repost...

Thrust on 24"x30" XPS vs KEF Q500, 1 Meter, same mic position.

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DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

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