DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

[rhubarb9999]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Thanks for the info.

What thickness of the pink panel is generally considered the best?

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

There really isn't a clear "Best" thickness... just sets of compromises and have to find the best that suits your particular tastes and preferences.

Some use 3/4" and like it very much as it should provide better high freq. response than a thicker panel. I personally found it to be a little to floppy and would provide less precise bass transients. I didn't even take the time to treat them so its possible that panel treatment would improve its performance. For a small panel it would be better suited and I'm sure it would be very good.

Currently...I like the 1" panels (especially for large panels that benefit from more rigidity) improved bass and transients AND I am still getting good high frequency response even without EQ so given everything is seems like a good compromise for me. I also enjoy my 1 inch thick 2ft. x 2ft. panels as well for another point of reference.

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

In reference to the above post.

I am really enjoying my smaller 2 ft. x 2 ft. panels due to the speed, clarity and dynamics. A smaller panel paired with a sub (open baffle would mate the best with these panels) would be a very fine sounding full range system. I have to admit in a very unassuming way, with nearly 30 years of speaker building, these panels are really fun to listen to.

The next build will be 2 panels per side to increase the surface area for better bass quality yet maintain the speed and clarity of the smaller panel. A small line array if you will. Low freq. would be EQed.

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

For anyone quietly following...

Just started to listen to the new Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 Thruster and it is a SIGNIFICANT improvement from what I (and almost everyone over at AudioCircle) have been listening to [until very recent]. Wow!

They are on fresh 24 in. x 30 inch panels and all I can say is holy $hit! Like going from an entry level driver to a Scan Speak. EVERY quality and characteristic is better. Bass output on these panels is very impressive... even on these small panels. The upper bass/lower mid-range is full. For those of you who have heard a well executed open baffle bass bin, you know what I mean (e.g. piano sounds full, life size and realistic). Even these small size bass panels have this quality that Dick Olsher has comments on for years in regard to OB sound. I am getting some panel self-noise on lower piano notes at loud levels but that ought to go away after the treatment has cured. Some sibilance I was hearing on Cowboys Junkies Trinity Session (Blue Moon Revisited ... Margo's naturally raspy voice close miced' is a challenge for many speakers) is all but gone, acoustic space around instruments and recording venue, dynamic shading, instrument tone, detail, speed, clarity even transparency (how that is possible on a panel is speaker is... odd) ALL improved... big time!!! Have to get more time on them but early impressions are so positive ...had to report back early if anyone wants to try these DML panels.

Please do yourself a favor and order the new exciters if you are going to give these panels a go. You will not regret it!!

Also to note on panel size. While the smaller 24 in. x 24 in. panels operate like a point source, the 24 x 30 panels must be just big enough to cross the threshold to a line array at a reasonable listening distance. I have to listen at a closer distance than normal but even at 7 feet I am still listening inside the arrays focused pattern. Listening closer is better but still inside the acoustic space (some describe the line array like listening to a large pair of headphones. But I think its much better than that as there is depth and space in front of you unlike a headphone.) at about 7 feet. SO I would go no smaller than 2 ft. x 3 ft. unless you are already listening at close distances.

If you have ever enjoyed Maggies or Apogee full-range ribbons I think you are *really* going to enjoy these DML panels built as described. To be honest, I couldn't live with Maggies... loved the transparency and detail but they were not sensitive/dynamic enough... needed more get up and go. But I am VERY happy to report that THESE PANELS ARE!!

Back to another late night listening session...

[Chaz_H]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Are your new panels framed or clamped in anyway or are they completely bare?

[weskoki]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Rmeinke,could you post some photos

[rhubarb9999]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

What is the difference between the DAEX32EP-4 and the DAEX32U-4?

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Are your new panels framed or clamped in anyway or are they completely bare?

Hey Chaz,
Just bare. I have mine propped up on vintage high-back cane chairs still with a folded over sock on each corner so not reasting on the cane seat rail. The back leaning against 1 of the chairs back posts that have a large rubber-band wrapped around it a few times. This is so the DML panel is touching the rubber and not the wood of the chair. Otherwise you get a lot of noise from the vibrating panel.

A few times I have had my 2 teenage boys grab a panel and suspend in the air so I can do a quick listen to see how a suspended panel will sound. The bass improves as does the overall clarity and transparency.

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Rmeinke,could you post some photos

Sure, I'll take a pic or 2 tonight and post. Nothing to look at but you can at least see the panel layout.

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

What is the difference between the DAEX32EP-4 and the DAEX32U-4?

Not much from what I can tell other than the FS. The DAEX32EP-4 - Fs (uncoupled): 395 Hz, The DAEX32U-4 - Fs (uncoupled): 160 Hz. I'm going to order a few of each and see how the measured response differs but more importantly... how do they sound. I imagine that the low FS exciter has a thinner steel spider so the lower FS might work better on lighter panel materials.

I would also have to think that, given the same panel, the lower FS exciter will play lower. The difference, I imagine, is quite small as the panel's size, weight and material play a much larger role in the freq. response. than the exciter itself. This is speculation at this point but hope to order more exciters over the next week or so. Will let ya know!

[donradick]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I got my DML up and running last Sunday, and put a few hours on it to break it in.
I was expecting fuzzy, honky sound quality - was I heard from the first go was
well balanced, pretty good detail. I kept thinking about all the DIY speakers where
you tweak the crossover after listening - well, no crossovers on these!

I'm running them in my wood shop now, and they will probably stay there.
I've got the HD 2 x 2 1 inch thick pink panels - attached the exciters with a generous squeeze of hot glue.

Thanks for the help and tips, rmeinke!

[rhubarb9999]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I'm running them in my wood shop now, and they will probably stay there.
I've got the HD 2 x 2 1 inch thick pink panels - attached the exciters with a generous squeeze of hot glue.

Thanks for the help and tips, rmeinke!

Which exciters?

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

I got my DML up and running last Sunday, and put a few hours on it to break it in.
I was expecting fuzzy, honky sound quality - was I heard from the first go was
well balanced, pretty good detail. I kept thinking about all the DIY speakers where
you tweak the crossover after listening - well, no crossovers on these!

I'm running them in my wood shop now, and they will probably stay there.
I've got the HD 2 x 2 1 inch thick pink panels - attached the exciters with a generous squeeze of hot glue.

Thanks for the help and tips, rmeinke!

Your welcome Don...glad you got them done and making some music! Nice to have a DIY project that you can complete in a hour or so.

It took me a few days to get used to the presentation... they do sound different from traditional speakers. I had and still have some reservations about the sensation that sound is coming from the back of the speaker, through the panel and then to the listening space. Do you have that same feeling? And funny you should mention tweaking xovers and such... I fought that big time. I immediately brought out my Behringer DCX2496 and boosted the freq. extremes of my small panels, put in some BBC dip, got out my OB bass panels and tweaked on for hours. It wasn't until I removed everything and began to listen to them naked before I relaxed and just sat back and enjoyed the music. There is a naturalness and coherency to them... be it due to being full range with no crossovers or the transparency/room enveloping bipolar response that i began to enjoy.

Just curious how far out into the room did you position them? I had to move them from my small listening room out into the living room. They need even more room to breath than my open baffles... at least 3 ft. into the room. Also need to find a way to be sure they are not over damped by what they are sitting on but a little is fine so that they are not vibrating on a hard surface.

There is a lot more detail and clarity in those panels that you won't get from using the DAEX58FP exciter. It tool me about 10 seconds to tell that this was not a good choice for a light weight XPS panel and about 30 minutes to pry them off the panel. That large, chunky plastic plate robs the panel of detail and clarity and while the bass was more extended it was boomy and flobby on my 2 ft. x 4 ft. panel... not good quality. The cheaper $8 DAEX25FHE-4 exciter was hands down a better performer in every respect.

The new Dayton Audio DAEX32EP-4 beats the pants off the cheap DAEX25FHE-4 and takes DML performance to a whole new level.

My panels took over 30 hours before they started to sound good. I'd say that a few more days for the panel treatment to cure and the exciter to break in would help improve the sound but I'm not sure how much given that specific exciter (plus gluing on with hot glue, unless you put it on really, REALLY thin... it will further rob detail and HF response) I'm not sure how much improvement is yet to come. The panels continued to improve over a weeks time.

If you didn't get them out into the room give that a whirl. Either way, report back if those panels open up with time Don!!

[rmeinke]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Hey rhubarb,
Don used the DAEX58FP (he had 4, I have 8... now 6.. 2 are in the trash can). Avoid this exciter at all costs. That large black plastic clunky base plate really destroys sound quality. The bass quality was muddy and thick... the rest was lacking in clarity.

The new thruster exciter is heads and shoulders above the DAEX58FP. The DAEX25FHE-4 is nice for the money but the DAEX32EP-4 is the way to go!

Rich

[donradick]

Re: DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Which exciters?

I'm using the DAEX58FP exciters. Sounds pretty good to me, but I'd like to hear DAEX32EP-4 exciters.