DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

[Unbiasedsound]

I have received my order today, now its time to see the differences the upgrades will make....this tweeter is suppose to reach up to 40,000khz. I hope that will help the the higher frequencies.

[WernerM]

I have received my order today, now its time to see the differences the upgrades will make....this tweeter is suppose to reach up to 40,000khz. I hope that will help the the higher frequencies.

Which one? I was looking at the $12 planar to add top end and keep the project cheap.

[Unbiasedsound]

Which one? I was looking at the $12 planar to add top end and keep the project cheap.

http://www.parts-express.com/beston-rt001a-ribbon-tweeter--277-110

[Unbiasedsound]

I didnt get to test out or implement the tweeter into my DML panels yet as I was kind of busy today, so I will start tomorrow hopefully........I did have another friend come by for a moment and listen to my DML panels speakers....When I showed him the foam speakers he kind of laughed and said what are those and I told him those are the speakers I told him about once before that Ive been working on for the past 7 months or so......After playing the song, and so it goes by Jennifer warnes he wasnt laughing at the foam speakers anymore, he was actually floored in awe......I asked him if the high frequencies were adequate or if they need a little more extension and he told me they sounded perfect to him.....I told him I bought a tweeter to extend the higher frequencies and he told me I should leave them the way they are because the tweeter could make them sound to bright...my friend is into the old school vintage hi fi like those old school receivers with the silver metallic look that weigh a ton. lol...my other two friends that auditioned my speakers both say it lacks the most highest frequencies. Either his hearing is not as good as my other 2 friends or he just prefers the warmer, smoother treble tones.....he wanted to buy my small DML panels that I am using for my surround because they are small enough to fit on a shelf but I told him all the speakers except for the Bertagnis are all prototypes and I wouldnt feel comfortable selling him something that I know I can make sound even better and also look better as the cosmetics are not all that pleasing too look at but they SOUND pretty darn good. LOL

[Unbiasedsound]

I didnt get to test out or implement the tweeter into my DML panels yet as I was kind of busy today, so I will start tomorrow hopefully........I did have another friend come by for a moment and listen to my DML panels speakers....When I showed him the foam speakers he kind of laughed and said what are those and I told him those are the speakers I told him about once before that Ive been working on for the past 7 months or so......After playing the song, and so it goes by Jennifer warnes he wasnt laughing at the foam speakers anymore, he was actually floored in awe......I asked him if the high frequencies were adequate or if they need a little more extension and he told me they sounded perfect to him.....I told him I bought a tweeter to extend the higher frequencies and he told me I should leave them the way they are because the tweeter could make them sound to bright...my friend is into the old school vintage hi fi like those old school receivers with the silver metallic look that weigh a ton. lol...my other two friends that auditioned my speakers both say it lacks the most highest frequencies. Either his hearing is not as good as my other 2 friends or he just prefers the warmer, smoother treble tones.....he wanted to buy my small DML panels that I am using for my surround because they are small enough to fit on a shelf but I told him all the speakers except for the Bertagnis are all prototypes and I wouldnt feel comfortable selling him something that I know I can make sound even better and also look better as the cosmetics are not all that pleasing too look at but they SOUND pretty darn good. LOL

[Shadetreehifi]

I stumbled across this blurb on the website of Layered Sound Tech, brainchild of Shelley Katz, marketer of the podium speakers. Sounded interesting, so I hooked up my Maggie MG12s and my dml panels together (same source, two amps) with the maggies in the center. Volume level is adjustable for each set of speakers. The effect is quite pleasing and addictive. Takes the stereo imaging effect and adds not just spacial cues but a kind of gut level tangibility, especially on live recordings where space is a big part of the recording. By adjusting the relative volume of the two sets of speakers, the effect can be manually dialed in and out to suit the recording. When in the sweet spot, the dml panels disappear, and all the sound seems to radiate from the dynamic speakers.

http://layeredsound.com/layeredsound.php

[Unbiasedsound]

I stumbled across this blurb on the website of Layered Sound Tech, brainchild of Shelley Katz, marketer of the podium speakers. Sounded interesting, so I hooked up my Maggie MG12s and my dml panels together (same source, two amps) with the maggies in the center. Volume level is adjustable for each set of speakers. The effect is quite pleasing and addictive. Takes the stereo imaging effect and adds not just spacial cues but a kind of gut level tangibility, especially on live recordings where space is a big part of the recording. By adjusting the relative volume of the two sets of speakers, the effect can be manually dialed in and out to suit the recording. When in the sweet spot, the dml panels disappear, and all the sound seems to radiate from the dynamic speakers.

http://layeredsound.com/layeredsound.php

Although I have never tried pairing maggies with my dml panels I have had 2 people who heard my dml panels say that they sound very similar to maggies hence the reason why I believe that they would blend very well together with each other........If you didnt already know I am using a 5.1 set up with all speakers being DML panels including a DML sub panel........I started off with my Bertagni speakers which are DML speakers and I tried to combine conventional cone speakers for the center and surround and no matter how much I tried to dial them in with my Bertagni dml speakers they just didnt seem to sound right or blend well together.....When I used DML panels for the center and surrounds they seem to blend very well together way more so then the conventional cone/box speakers.....I am by no means saying Shelly kats and his theory of layered sound technology is wrong, I am just saying IMO, it didnt blend as well for me when trying to combine conventional cone/box speakers with dml panels......the only combination of cone and dml that seemed to work/blend well IMO is a conventional cone/box subwoofer probably due to the low frequencies not being as directional.

[Shadetreehifi]

I first tried the dml panels in surround setup, but the time delay function on my receiver created issues with time alignment (no option of setting the lag to zero). At any rate, it would take some fast cone action to mesh with the speed of the panels' transients. The main point, whatever the speaker technology used in conjunction with the panels, is that they be dynamic (producing longitudinal waves) to complement the resonant modes of the dml panels. I agree about the subs. No problems with coherence there.

Some quick open baffle full rangers might do well with the dml panels as well.

[WernerM]

So I have taken some measurements I would like to share. The following measurements where done using one of the DAEX25 exciter pair for $15 and the same exciter was used to yield more accurate comparisons. Also, the Monacor placement method of 4/9 X (longest length) and 3/7 Y (shorter length) was used. The measurements were taken at 25" and 4' from any boundaries. Panel was placed on a table resting on a 6" wide strip of acoustafoam. All images are after 1/24 octave smoothing...



Here is a 16X24 1.5" thick panel no edge treatments and only the exciter side sanded and treated with the 50/50 glue/water...









Here is the same size in 1" thick XPS with NO treatments of any kind...









Here is the 1 inch thick 24X24 XPS panel untreated...









Finally the following is the untreated 8X24 scrap piece of 1in XPS that I cut off ...








It is interesting to note that the lengths of these are the same, and where the lows start falling with each width. It is also interesting that the untreated 1" XPS measures flatter than the 1.5". The next step is to sand one side and remeasure, then treat with the 50/50 mix and remeasure. Hopefully this won't raise the 2-4K region like it is on the 1.5" XPS. I will post those results once I get the chance to.

Edit:. After reviewing BSC I was reminded of why the lows start falling off where they do. It was a total DUH!!! moment... LOL.

[WernerM]

I also plan on doing other larger sizes as well...

Edit: I have special plans for that 8" wide piece. I will continue to do treatment and measuring on it as well. I will probably try the aluminum foil and window film treatments with it also to see if I can bring up the highs and lows...

[Kornbread]

16"x24"@1.5" step at 175hz.
16"x24"@1" step at 175hz.
24"x24"@1" ugh.
8"x24"@1" step at 650hz.

Size, shape, rigidity are going to play a huge part in response.

[Gary.M]

I also plan on doing other larger sizes as well...

Edit: I have special plans for that 8" wide piece. I will continue to do treatment and measuring on it as well. I will probably try the aluminum foil and window film treatments with it also to see if I can bring up the highs and lows...

Excellent!! thank you very much this is very informative.

[WernerM]

Update:. I got the panels skinned on one side today with the 50/50 mix. I am going to give them the 1 week that rmeinke suggests to break in before remeasuring.

Now I have to ask, are thrusters and ultra exciters still dying rapidly? I want to test them, but I don't want to be out that money, plus panel damage replacing them.

[captainjack115]

Update:. I got the panels skinned on one side today with the 50/50 mix. I am going to give them the 1 week that rmeineke suggests to break in before remeasuring.

Now I have to ask, are thrusters and ultra exciters still dying rapidly? I want to test them, but I don't want to be out that money, plus panel damage replacing them.

I recently lost another Thruster, I ordered 2 more from PE while they're on sale. Sadly they're on back order. I can't be certain, but I believe the voice coil connection is breaking due to excursion more so than wattage overload. There must be something more robust that will stand up to a little stress.

[Kornbread]

I recently lost another Thruster, I ordered 2 more from PE while they're on sale. Sadly they're on back order. I can't be certain, but I believe the voice coil connection is breaking due to excursion more so than wattage overload. There must be something more robust that will stand up to a little stress.

All of mine checked open circuit, some were driven with a 15w Lepai, so they might have seen 5'ish watts. Definitely not overloaded. The panels are still sitting in the shed waiting for you guys to find a more reliable exciter.