DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

[Unbiasedsound]

Did some up grades on my DML surround sound panels and added the dayton audio nd16fa-6 5/8inch soft dome neodymium tweeter.....the second up grade was changing out the cheap panasonic cross overs and running the exciter full range while the tweeter is utilizing the partsexpress 5khz high pass 8ohm crossover, this combo seems to work great and will be my go to combo from now on when building all of my bertagni type design panels....with these two upgrades the sound of my surround sound panels is spectacular with all the highs I could ever want......next up grade is too see how the Beston RT001A Ribbon Tweeter would sound when used with my center channel DML panel.

[WernerM]

Well If any of y'all have been reading my "Listening/Measuring Room" thread, then you know that I have an issue with my soundcard clipping. I didn't realise this until recently, but after reviewing the previous measurements I posted, they were affected. I honestly don't know how much, the response maybe okay, but some of the 'bumps' may be due to the clipping. I have ordered one of the Behringer UFO202's today (and some of the mini $12 Dayton planar tweeters) today. I will wait until these come in and I get my measurement setup correct again before I perform any more and post them.

I can say that as I sit hear listening to Allison Krauss and Union Station on the single channel DML panel I have, it sounds very good to me, obviously not perfect, but I mean there is very good potential. Obviously it lacks some of the upper range as noted, but overall, it is very tight and crisp. The drum snaps and resonances are really great as well as the resonances from acoustic instruments are very clear and more realistic than what I am used to. As a midrange, these panels are excellent in this size. I do have them paired with a donated 8" sub from many years back that were originally for some gaming system speakers... I have a 2mH coil rolling it off around 300Hz and the panel playing full range for now.

[WernerM]

I haven't had a chance to read through all of the posts in Audio circle NXT thread, but I was wondering if anyone has tried Duratex as a skin on these panels? The fact that you can get it in either black or white makes it an inviting idea to me to try at some point...

[Unbiasedsound]

I tried the Beston tweeter on my center channel with my dml panel set up and they did not blend well....its seems that the small Dayton tweeters I used for my surrounds blends way better then the beston tweeter.....I am not saying that the Dayton tweeters are better it just blends better with my dml panels then the beston.....I was thinking about returning the beston tweeter and ordering more of the Dayton but when I checked the dayton tweeters they were out of stock.....so lol....looking for another similar dayton tweeter like the more expensive but same line up of nd dayton tweeters.

My surround DML panel speakers are on some wall bracket stands and the reflections from the back wall seem to be echoing too much due to the speakers being only 3-5 inches from the wall so I did an experiment to see how I can solve this problem. I first tried to cover the whole back side of the panels with some 1/16th hard board so that sound only radiates from the front....that did solve the wall reflection problems BUT it made the speaker sound dull and lifeless.......so I figured why not compromise and go half and half were only a inch around the whole back frames are covered with enough opening for some sound to be reflected from the back and THAT did the trick as it helped with the echo reflection problems and at the same time keeping that dipole rear sound effect making them lively enough.

[WernerM]

Very cool. When the planar tweeters arrive and I test, I'll fill y'all in.

[Unbiasedsound]

I am debating if I should wait for the dayton nd16 to be back in stock so that all the tweeters match or should I go and get the dayton nd20fa-6?

[WernerM]

If you decide to get the ND20fa, I would suggest you get 2 of them. The ND20 is a close, but it does play 6dB higher from the spec graphs from 6K on up and the mechanical specs are different so I'm not quite sure you could truly get it to blend well with the ND16. I may be wrong, however, that is my opinion and what I would do.

[Unbiasedsound]

If you decide to get the ND20fa, I would suggest you get 2 of them. The ND20 is a close, but it does play 6dB higher from the spec graphs from 6K on up and the mechanical specs are different so I'm not quite sure you could truly get it to blend well with the ND16. I may be wrong, however, that is my opinion and what I would do.

Ah ok thanks,I wasnt sure about the blending of it, so I figure I just might as well wait until the nd16 is back in stock as I just hate to have any regrets.

[Unbiasedsound]

My friend came over again, the one that is into the vintage audio as he was very intrigued with my DML flat panel speakers that he listened to before so we began talking for about 2 hrs about speakers (who the **** talks about speakers for two hours, wife rolls her eyes as if that is what she was implying. LMAO).....I told him about the tweeters and how the beston did not sound or blend as well with my dml panels as the dayton nd16s and I also let him hear both tweeters for comparison and too tell me his thoughts on them. He said the highs on the DML panels without the tweeter are already there, its just that the high frequencies seem very diffused, laid back and or recessed, the main reason for this is most likely due to the high frequencies being dispersed over a large surface area rather then it coming directly from a small area/ point similar to a 1 inch or smaller dome tweeter were the high frequencies are more pronounced...and a light bulb went off in my head. LOL...The reason why the beston did not sound or blend as well is because the beston tweeter is more laid back and diffused while the dayton nd16 is a more forward sounding tweeter and even my friend agreed that I need a tweeter that has a forward sounding high frequency effect since the high frequencies of the dml panels are more diffused and laid back....this got me thinking more about the article that Shelly Katz wrote about layered sound and I can see more clearly now of where he was coming from about combining the two.

[WernerM]

One thing I have been curious about is instead of rounding the edges, doing a chamfer on them. I wonder if it will help with the highs...

[captainjack115]

All of mine checked open circuit, some were driven with a 15w Lepai, so they might have seen 5'ish watts. Definitely not overloaded. The panels are still sitting in the shed waiting for you guys to find a more reliable exciter.

I cancelled the two Thrusters that were on back order from PE, there's a problem with them that needs to be addressed. About eight years ago I used low power exciters I bought in bulk from PE and never lost one to an open circuit. They did get a little warm, but never failed. I wouldn't know where to "shop around", but there must be tougher exciters out there some place.

[Kornbread]

Somewhere, maybe not on this forum, there was mention that the leads were not braided/tinseled? but were solid copper. The repeated cycling is going to break those thin solid wires not unlike someone repeatedly bending a wire. My thoughts are when panels are allowed to vibrate lower in the frequency range with much output, ie; more travel, their life is going to be shortened.

Just my $.02, YMMV.

[WernerM]

The cheap $15/pr exciters are still holding up well for me, those are what I have been measuring, and I have been measuring the panels at 80dB or so and playing them at 85dB... I like my music loud, plus it is the best way to hear resonance in the panel. The SQ of these really is pretty good to me, but I have not had the pleasure of hearing any other exciters for comparison. I'm still experimenting with different panel configurations, layers, etc. Trying to see if I can bring the levels up in the range above 5k. I did do a quick experiment today using the 8" XPS glued to the window film. I attached the window film to a 19.5" x 39.5" picture frame and heated it up to tension it until a flick of it sounded like a drum head. What I found was that the SQ if the XPS was still there and the lows came way up! The only problem is it has more echo to it. But I am thinking of retrying with the film stuck to the front of the frame instead of behind it.

One other note, do NOT use Loctite spray adhesive on the unskinned XPS, it will eat it! Lol found this out today also.

I will report back as I find more things out and will have good measurements again soon... In the mean time, good luck everyone and have fun!

[captainjack115]

Somewhere, maybe not on this forum, there was mention that the leads were not braided/tinseled? but were solid copper. The repeated cycling is going to break those thin solid wires not unlike someone repeatedly bending a wire. My thoughts are when panels are allowed to vibrate lower in the frequency range with much output, ie; more travel, their life is going to be shortened.

Just my $.02, YMMV.

My thoughts, exactly! The company in China making these exciters is probably going to continue cranking them out as they are, unless they get enough complaints to retool. I've had the same sort of failure with the Ultra's as well. I've returned one failed unit out of three to PE, they were super nice about replacing the failed unit. Maybe they should make some noise with their vendor/manufacturer, providing they get enough complaints. I can't help wondering if the use of these exciters goes beyond DIY applications, extending to commercial applications.

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Building another customer set. I am using a new 2mm panel from my friends at Wright Patt AFB, this time in an 11 x 14 size. This panel is extremely light yet very rigid and I was expecting this thinner version to provide even better high end response and volume. You can see that the high end response is great all the way out to the 19k limit of the sweep I ran.