DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

[SAC]

More DML love

I am building a set of 4 to hang from my kitchen ceiling. Using 2x2 XPS (I think?) combined with 1/8x8" round wood panels driven by DAEX25-SHFs and EQ'd with a DSP-408. Not sure about the amp/preamp yet as my old Cambridge Audio preamp seems to have bit the dust.

Haven't figured out how to use REW yet so I just tuned the DSP-408 with a calibrated mic. The stock sound was very "nasal" with not much top end.... very strong from maybe 2K-8K with big rolloff from there. I got the sweep to be mostly flat, then made some more changes to taste (it was still a little too sibilant) using the harsher reference tracks I had (most of the tracks from Steely Dan's "Gaucho"). Overall I am pleased with the sound, though one thing that was a bit disorienting was the complete lack of a soundstage. The room is just filled with sound, with pretty vague channel separation. Given that these are gonna be on the ceiling I figure that is fine. They sound great otherwise.

[Unbiasedsound]

More DML love

I am building a set of 4 to hang from my kitchen ceiling. Using 2x2 XPS (I think?) combined with 1/8x8" round wood panels driven by DAEX25-SHFs and EQ'd with a DSP-408. Not sure about the amp/preamp yet as my old Cambridge Audio preamp seems to have bit the dust.

Haven't figured out how to use REW yet so I just tuned the DSP-408 with a calibrated mic. The stock sound was very "nasal" with not much top end.... very strong from maybe 2K-8K with big rolloff from there. I got the sweep to be mostly flat, then made some more changes to taste (it was still a little too sibilant) using the harsher reference tracks I had (most of the tracks from Steely Dan's "Gaucho"). Overall I am pleased with the sound, though one thing that was a bit disorienting was the complete lack of a soundstage. The room is just filled with sound, with pretty vague channel separation. Given that these are gonna be on the ceiling I figure that is fine. They sound great otherwise.

Damping is a DML panels best friend. You can use Frost king weather strip foam tape on all 4 sides of the panel. If you look at this video you will see the white foam all around the DML panel.

Bertagni Electroacoustic SM 80 Flat Panel Speakers - YouTube

[SAC]

Damping is a DML panels best friend. You can use Frost king weather strip foam tape on all 4 sides of the panel. If you look at this video you will see the white foam all around the DML panel.

Bertagni Electroacoustic SM 80 Flat Panel Speakers - YouTube

I am running these without a frame and hanging them from the ceiling.... does that make a difference? Will be hard to make a frame with the rounded corners

[Unbiasedsound]

You dont need to use a frame, that vid was just to show you where to put the foam. Just use the FK damping foam all around the sides. This will prevent the vibrational waves from escaping from the sides of the panel and making your panel sound fuller and more focused instead of diffused. This will also create better stereo separation, due to the vibration not coming out of the sides and cancelling the other panel out.

[pixelphoto]

Has anyone painted there XPS project panels with Plasti Dip spray paint? ( https://plastidip.com ). If so did it effect the sound quality?

[Unbiasedsound]

Has anyone painted there XPS project panels with Plasti Dip spray paint? ( https://plastidip.com ). If so did it effect the sound quality?

No but from what I read from the site its like rubber and remains flexible and stretchy over time and it can be peelable and removeable from most surfaces. Like paint this can be used as a skin to help tame some high frequencies but like paint if to much is used it can hamper high frequencies. If used lightly it should work but if too thick it will over damp panels.

One thing not really discussed with DML is the skin. Anything thin, light and even slightly porous can be used as skin. Anything you put on the panels even a light coat of paint will change the sound. T.I. in his comment section claims that light paint wont effect and or change the sound. He is wrong. Paint one panel and not the other and do some critical listening and you will hear a slight difference. Some want to put posters on the panel for decoration but it will change the sound. Again I repeat anything you put on the panels will change the sound as these panels are sensitive to changes. You can even combine materials to be used as the skin, for example my go to material which is the most common one is paint but I also combine that with speaker (grill) CLOTH. I have owned speakers since the 70's and my ears like the sound of the speaker cloth. Speaker cloth can tame some of the harshness making the panels sound smoother. You can wrap them directly on to the panel or away from the panel like a conventional cloth grill. Damn I am giving away to much of my secrets I better shut up. LMAO

[jim85iroc]

it's probably been addressed somewhere in the 88 pages that I didn't read, but have folks experimented with DSP to flatten out the frequency responses for these? I use a set of the cheap buyout exciters from about 12-13 years ago on the backside of my shower enclosure. I love the setup, but the response certainly is far from flat. I've often though of measuring it and using a Mini-DSP or similar device to try and correct some of it.

[LOUT]

I've heard folks claiming DSP works well for them and I always kind of thought that was standard operating procedure. I'm assuming passive parts could be used for the same thing if you prefer, but in general I'd assume it's very similar to using any other FullRange driver in that regard.

[Unbiasedsound]

DSP/EQ is not really standard operating procedures in DML. It wont turn a awful sounding DML panel into a really good sounding DML panel. A DML panel is based on one's design as the better your design the better the DML panel will sound. DSP/EQ should mainly be used to fine tune a already good sounding panel.

[Unbiasedsound]

DSP/EQ can help to flatten out the frequency response and make them sound a bit better but there are limits to DSP/EQ.

[jim85iroc]

DSP/EQ can help to flatten out the frequency response and make them sound a bit better but there are limits to DSP/EQ.

for sure, but I don't do my critical listening in the shower, so if it can help even out the response a bit, I think it'll be an overall win.

[Unbiasedsound]

Found this link on another site. Its old (most likely outdated) published in 1999. Oh wait is that a Prince song? LOL

SoundRight - Peter Mapp

[SAC]

for sure, but I don't do my critical listening in the shower, so if it can help even out the response a bit, I think it'll be an overall win.

I am using a DSP for mine. They roll off a good bit at the extreme high end, but I'm figuring that my age and music tastes don't make that critical

I did want to ask- I'm hanging these from a ceiling. Since they are dipoles..... what should I do about mounting height? Mount them flush? Hang them with absorption to eat up the back wave? Hang them and just leave them be? I know I can tune the frequency response with my DSP but that won't cover reflections. Then again this is a setup for a kitchen with hardwood floors and floor to ceiling windows so it might not even matter

[Unbiasedsound]

In T.I. video he mentions that one can use some type of absorbent material on the back walls to reduce reflections. That is not the ideal way as DML's benefit from rear wall reflections. I have mentioned before 2 proper techniques to acoustically treat your panels.

1st one is to place a rubber/foam type of material directly under the DML panels but ones panels must be floor standing and not hanging in which T.I. uses the hanging method so its not possible to use this technique on hanging panels.

The second technique is to take a very small piece of (I use F.K. brand) rubber/foam around 1/4 size and place it directly on the back center of the exciter. This technique is from Shelly Kats Podium panels. The only difference is I use a way smaller size damping piece. Larger the size of the rubber/foam the more damping while smaller the size less damping. Shelly kats uses a larger piece and IMO that is over damping.

[Unbiasedsound]

Damn that thread on the DIY forum of a study of DML's as a full range speakers has gone insane as they are talking about using metal skin all over there panels like aluminum, titanium and magnesium.

DML's are sensitive to any type of skin materials used.

I mean if you like harsh metallic sounds that are very fatiguing then hey I guess it would work for you. lol

[Unbiasedsound]

Here is a review of the beginners pink panels> How To Build "The World's Best Speakers" - Are Flat Panel Speakers Really Any Good? - YouTube

He is most likely not into hi fi audio if he thinks they sound good. To the average person these beginner pink panels sound good to them but in reality they dont sound any better then a entry level conventional cone speaker, in fact they probably sound worse. He even compares his phone speakers to the DML panels lol most any speaker will sound better then the phone speakers. lol

The only thing the pink dml panels will do better then most entry level conventional cone speakers is the soundstage and imaging.

Like I said many times before its all about ones design. The better the design the better the sound quality.

[Unbiasedsound]

Here is one thing I have learned recently with capacitors while experimenting with my DML panels. Unless the capacitor is of high quality it actually degrades the sound especially with the electrolytic caps. I ordered 125uf electrolytic caps for my small desk top satellite panels and I immediately heard a degrade in sound quality. Dayton makes a 100uf cap but it cost 30 something bucks each which isnt worth it because my small panels cost less then then the price of a pair of Dayton 100uf caps. I thought that was expensive until I talked to one of my audiophile buddy who I havent talked to in ages and he told me if you think that is expensive there are certain caps that can cost $100.00 and over per cap. He uses clarity caps, I said I cant afford it. lol