Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
    Interesting. I had wondered about using a bass shaker on a large panel. Try solidly attaching the back of the bass shaker to something solid so it has something to push/pull from. Also try them close to the wall and see if that makes any changes.
    I think attaching the BassShaker itself to something super solid will stop it from being able to move/vibrate and stop it from being able to vibrate the panel...though it might get a wall to resonate deep bass as a side-effect (which could be interesting in its own right).

    I'll have to try the panel closer a wall like you mention. That should be more realistic for what anyone would normally do with a large panel. I was using a relatively short cord in the middle of the room during my quick "test" so I'm curious how different that might sound.
    I'll probably also need to grab a small section of plywood or something to let the screws anchor tight into something through the other side of the XPS...and see about some kind of temporary hanging method for the panel that won't put holes in the wall or ceiling.

    Originally posted by Unbiasedsound View Post
    The Dayton Puck Bass shaker is fully enclosed in some sort of metallic casing but its not air tight so some mid to highs can leak out in free air but not so much when attached to a material. So basically the whole casing vibrates you can put either side to the panel and it will vibrate the panel. Unlike a exciter in which it only vibrates on one side were the plastic is attached to the voice coil.

    The metallic casing is to dense for high frequencies to pass through when attached so sensitivity in those mid to high frequency range are very limited. I seen a video of someone taking the casing off of one of the bass shakers and it looked like a pistonic jack hammer moving up and down attached to some type of plastic diaphragm and in turn it would pound the metal casing that it was enclosed in like a rubber mallet hitting a solid object to make a thud there fore vibrating the whole casing.
    Although this is not the Dayton Puck bass shaker I assume that the concept and design are fairly similar in most bass shakers. Bass Shaker Guts - YouTube

    Although the bass shaker can go lower then any commercially available exciter today IMO its bass is not as refined or articulate as a exciter.
    If I use 2 DAEX30HESF-4 with a sub amp it can play just as loud as the Dayton puck exciter but it wont reach as low as it starts to drop off at around 40hz.
    I'm pretty sure I have a DAEX30HESF-4 I can play around with. I remember it being one of my favorites among the exciters I tried a few years ago. I certainly don't remember it reaching anywhere near 40hz though...I'll obviously need to try some new surfaces/materials. What material and size were you using that let it get that low?

    This thread is making me excited to dig out the little transducer collection that I haven't played with in quite a while. I think the cheaper DAEX25FHE-4 was suprisingly decent for the price...and it looks like it might sound similar to the Thruster/DAEX32EP-4 albeit at 24w VS 40w power-handling.
    I remember being pretty underwhelmed with the much more expensive DAEX25SHF-4 (though I don't think it was $40 when I bought it). I thought the HDN-8 was kinda garbage and didn't care much for the "SquareFrame" models I tried for whatever that's worth.

    EDIT: Looks like I still have;
    DAEX30HESF-4 (easily the most robust-looking of any fullrange exciter I've tried, with thicker tinsel leads and reinforced connection to voicecoil),
    DAEX25FHE-4 (looks like a cheaper 30HESF-4, but seems to lack some of the HESF's sensitivity and also might lack some of the HESF's bass and treble),
    DAEX25SHF-4 (still looks cheaper and more fragile than the HESF and mostly just sounds louder in the mid-frequency...like a louder 25FHE at 4X the price),
    DAEX58FP (sounds better than I remember and no exposed+delicate tinsel. Thought it was a little quiet but then realized it's 8ohm...not bad).
    I think the HDN-8 and coin-type low watt exciter I had broke. If I remember right, the HDN-8 partly fried (pushed a little too hard when it never got nearly loud enough) and the coin-type got slightly torn/damaged trying to seperate it from a surface it was stuck against with its strong adhesive.
    Last edited by LOUT; 07-14-2021, 07:24 PM.
    My first 2way build

    Comment


    • The DAEX32EP-4 are the exciters that always STB. Some never made it past the initial freq response measurement as the solid leads quickly broke. They, and PE refusing to replace any more, were the reason I got out of the dml foray.
      I suspect, akin to a normal driver, they have an excursion limit. This is listed as NA in their spec sheet. I suspect it possible, in the pursuit of larger panels with more bass, that larger nodes? were being created and forcing the exciter past its excursion limits. This, combined with the poorly thought out solid leads, made for a very short lived exciter and a lot of aggravation.

      I have not seen the bass shakers you are referencing so this may not apply. With the daex32ep solidly attached to the panel, and the panel only being held to the frame by small tabs of whatever type of panel in use at the time, attaching the back of the daex32 to a frame crossmember (front remains attached to the panel) with hot glue noticeably improved the sound, and IIRC, bass.
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
        The DAEX32EP-4 are the exciters that always STB. Some never made it past the initial freq response measurement as the solid leads quickly broke. They, and PE refusing to replace any more, were the reason I got out of the dml foray.
        I suspect, akin to a normal driver, they have an excursion limit. This is listed as NA in their spec sheet. I suspect it possible, in the pursuit of larger panels with more bass, that larger nodes? were being created and forcing the exciter past its excursion limits. This, combined with the poorly thought out solid leads, made for a very short lived exciter and a lot of aggravation.

        I have not seen the bass shakers you are referencing so this may not apply. With the daex32ep solidly attached to the panel, and the panel only being held to the frame by small tabs of whatever type of panel in use at the time, attaching the back of the daex32 to a frame crossmember (front remains attached to the panel) with hot glue noticeably improved the sound, and IIRC, bass.
        The fullrange exciters I have all have solid tabs to solder to which haven't broke yet, but I've been relatively gentle. Most of them have REALLY thin tinsel from the tabs to the VC though, and it's often tightly stretched against the spider?/support which doesn't inspire confidence....except with the squareDAEX58FP (which has everything hidden where I can't accidentally catch it on something) and the HESF which looks more decently constructed.
        I am curious if the fullrange exciters I have will all handle a 20-60hz signal at their rated wattage. So far they've been okay, but XMECH has to be a danger at some point, right?

        The BST-2 BassShaker doesn't have the same exposed VC/motor that's separate from the frame like most fullrange exciters, instead the outside is essentially JUST the frame (which wraps around all the way over the front and everything) while I expect the internal VC/motor moves a weight.
        It has wires instead of solid-leads or clips (which I hope are knotted inside the enclosure to stop against the exit hole and avoid pulling off the voicecoil if tugged). So far a little gentle pulling of the wires from a vacuum and a cat hasn't wrecked the pair under the couch.

        My first 2way build

        Comment


        • Originally posted by LOUT View Post
          Most of them have REALLY thin tinsel from the tabs to the VC though, and it's often tightly stretched against the spider?/support which doesn't inspire confidence.... So far they've been okay, but XMECH has to be a danger at some point, right?
          The solid wire tinsel from the tab to vc was the failure point. I'd wager the small solid wire acts just like a wire coat hanger after it's been flexed several times. Add to this the increase in excursion the exciter was likely experiencing with the larger panels, and it literally only took a few minutes until self destruction. If only they would have splurged the extra $.02 and upgraded to a braided wire ...

          Basically, this is the motor assembly of a typical cone-n-dome so yeah, you would think excursion would be an issue and something worth mentioning in the specs.

          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Kornbread View Post
            The solid wire tinsel from the tab to vc was the failure point. I'd wager the small solid wire acts just like a wire coat hanger after it's been flexed several times. Add to this the increase in excursion the exciter was likely experiencing with the larger panels, and it literally only took a few minutes until self destruction. If only they would have splurged the extra $.02 and upgraded to a braided wire ...

            Basically, this is the motor assembly of a typical cone-n-dome so yeah, you would think excursion would be an issue and something worth mentioning in the specs.
            In the PE images of the "Thruster"/DAEX32EP-4, it looks like the tinsel IS braided wire...just really tiny/thin (maybe also too tight and weakly attached).
            I think it's similar to most of the exciters I've used aside from the HESF, where it's still a flexible copper braid or strand, but stupidly thin.

            The Thruster/EP-4
            Click image for larger version

Name:	Untitled.jpg
Views:	186
Size:	72.0 KB
ID:	1473169
            Still can't believe they kept that delicate build for the ~$40 DAEX25SHF-4 (although the current PE image looks to be a little better than mine). I thought maybe the HESF got more robust because of its higher wattage-handling, but that THRUSTER is also 40watts rated like the HESF but looks to be using the thin stuff.


            The HESF-4
            Click image for larger version

Name:	HESF.jpg
Views:	185
Size:	110.0 KB
ID:	1473170
            I haven't noticed any of the other Dayton fullrange exciters being built with more average speaker tinsel like this. Wonder if this is why the HESF costs $3-5 more.
            My first 2way build

            Comment


            • Surely 2' of braided wire doesn't cost $5. They were others who brought my attention to the solid tinsel wire. They had the same issue. Maybe Dayton made a change, or maybe it's like you said, tiny and fragile.
              Still have a large blue xps and treated cardboard panel framed and ready to go for the next exciter experiment, but, as much as I like messing with the odd stuff, a price tag close to $30 makes for stiff competition with some proven cone-n-dome budget drivers.
              Still curious about what you find with panel placement. My guess is that the affect panel placement has on the bass will not be as dramatic as a monopole.
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...khanspires-but
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...pico-neo-build
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/fo...ensation-build

              Comment


              • LOUT
                LOUT commented
                Editing a comment
                Agreed about the $5, I'm mostly being kinda sarcastic and bitter about the higher price just to get one that doesn't look like it'll fall apart if you sneeze in its direction. I remember innitially feeling like the exciters were a really neat way to get a cheap speaker when I originally bought them to try. Now that I've heard what a $8+$13 tweeter+woofer in a small box can sound like, the exciters have sat in storage for a while.
                This thread has rekindled my interest, but the traditional speakers are tough competition.
                Luckily (silver lining) my main PE project parts are all on back-order for at least a month, so I have an excuse to play with the exciters and BassShakers while I wait.

            • Originally posted by LOUT View Post

              I'm pretty sure I have a DAEX30HESF-4 I can play around with. I remember it being one of my favorites among the exciters I tried a few years ago. I certainly don't remember it reaching anywhere near 40hz though...I'll obviously need to try some new surfaces/materials. What material and size were you using that let it get that low?

              This thread is making me excited to dig out the little transducer collection that I haven't played with in quite a while. I think the cheaper DAEX25FHE-4 was suprisingly decent for the price...and it looks like it might sound similar to the Thruster/DAEX32EP-4 albeit at 24w VS 40w power-handling.
              I remember being pretty underwhelmed with the much more expensive DAEX25SHF-4 (though I don't think it was $40 when I bought it). I thought the HDN-8 was kinda garbage and didn't care much for the "SquareFrame" models I tried for whatever that's worth.

              EDIT: Looks like I still have;
              DAEX30HESF-4 (easily the most robust-looking of any fullrange exciter I've tried, with thicker tinsel leads and reinforced connection to voicecoil),
              DAEX25FHE-4 (looks like a cheaper 30HESF-4, but seems to lack some of the HESF's sensitivity and also might lack some of the HESF's bass and treble),
              DAEX25SHF-4 (still looks cheaper and more fragile than the HESF and mostly just sounds louder in the mid-frequency...like a louder 25FHE at 4X the price),
              DAEX58FP (sounds better than I remember and no exposed+delicate tinsel. Thought it was a little quiet but then realized it's 8ohm...not bad).
              I think the HDN-8 and coin-type low watt exciter I had broke. If I remember right, the HDN-8 partly fried (pushed a little too hard when it never got nearly loud enough) and the coin-type got slightly torn/damaged trying to seperate it from a surface it was stuck against with its strong adhesive.
              I was using a 2ft.X4ft.X10mm EPS used with a frame and a spine with a sub amp.

              Comment


              • LOUT
                LOUT commented
                Editing a comment
                I think a lot of my original playing around was using different wood surfaces, so I'll have to remember to try some XPS at that size and think about a trip to a hardware store for EPS if I feel ambitious. The bass response did seem deeper than I remembered it being. I'll also need to experiment with bracing the fullrange exciter which makes sense for helping it reach more of its potential instead of simply relying on its own weightVSmomentum for moving the panel (like you and Kornbread already explained).

            • I've assembled my first panels. Finally I went with 4mm thick plywood of 40,5 x 40,5 cm for the speakers. I thought they had more deep tones than the 2cm thick xps panels. (Didn't get thinner ones in the stores) I also added a 2cm thick EPS of 55x45cm as a subwoofer.and I'm happy with the result.

              Comment


              • Just some love here. Added a minidsp 2x4 HD and brought my SVS cylinder up (from my home theatre to my garage with my basic panels). Used the DSP crossover to cut out 150hz and below and on my basic home depot panels and played around. bunch with with the EQ. Sound I've achieved at this point trends to very questionably awesome until you remember I'm driving two 22$ insulation panels with a 70 buck amp from amazon. No question 10k systems sound better, and the addition of a 400 DSP and a 1000$ sub make a huge difference, but the mid/high are excellent and the value is mind numbing. Can't wait to build some real panels.

                Do notice some probably clipping with my amzn 50W amp.. Might try something with a tad more headroom.

                Comment

                Working...
                X