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  • Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

    I've already built the TLAH Pros for our church's sound system, and these sound great and play plenty loud. The obvious (to pro-audio guys) problem is the lack of bottom end, these don't really go below 100hz w/out some help from the EQ. So we're looking for subs.

    I have BFM's plans, and I was considering either the Titan 48 (with a Lab 15 sub) or possibly the Titan 39, but they're pretty big. We'd like to put 2 of these subs under the front of our stage (one on each side) firing toward the audience, but if anyone here thinks this is a bad idea I'm ready to listen. The issue with this is that I think the footprint for both of the Titan subs is 24"x24". I can obviously lay them on their side, but I think I only have 21" of stage height to play with IIRC. Plus, if you look at the stage in the picture, less width would be good because we would like to keep as much of the stairs as we can.

    So here's my question... We found these JBL subs; they seem to be reviewed well and dimensionally would fit under the stage perfectly... JBL STX818S. The cost for these JBL subs is almost triple what a pair of the Titan 48s would cost, so saving money is always a good thing and I'm definitely down to build for them. Are there any pro subwoofer designs that are as small as these that would rival the JBLs in terms of output??

    Here's a pic of the stage. The 2 yellow arrows are where we'd like to place the subs (unless someone with more proaudio wisdom than I has a better option), and the yellow box is where the TLAH Pros are flown...

    Click image for larger version

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    And for what it's worth, here's the only pic I have of the TLAH Pros...

    Click image for larger version

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    "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
    "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

  • #2
    Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

    What is the distance between arrows? ( between subs ).
    I think the B&C 18" woofers would work fine.
    "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
    “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
    "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

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    • #3
      Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

      Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
      Are there any pro subwoofer designs that are as small as these that would rival the JBLs in terms of output??
      The Simplexx 18 isn't much larger, and will handily beat the JBL. But keep Hoffman's Iron Law in mind. Your proposed placement also almost insures a power alley situation. Along with Hoffman's the laws of subwoofer placement aren't negotiable.
      www.billfitzmaurice.com
      www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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      • #4
        Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

        Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
        The Simplexx 18 isn't much larger, and will handily beat the JBL. But keep Hoffman's Iron Law in mind. Your proposed placement also almost insures a power alley situation. Along with Hoffman's the laws of subwoofer placement aren't negotiable.
        What's a "power alley situation"; and in a perfect world where would ideal placement be?

        Edit: Is a power alley basically where it would be very bass heavy in certain areas, kind of like beaming (in a sense)?
        "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
        "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

          Originally posted by Sydney View Post
          What is the distance between arrows? ( between subs ).
          I think the B&C 18" woofers would work fine.

          The distance is negotiable. If we put them closer to the center of the stage, we would be at about 18' between the 2 subs, and could spread them as wide as roughly about 40' if they were against the walls.
          "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
          "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

            kind of like beaming

            Note: That is primarily a concern of professional outdoor sound and large venues.
            Last edited by Sydney; 12-30-2014, 01:33 PM.
            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
            “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

              What are the ideal box dimensions for that space? Ported 18" pro drivers can still get very loud
              http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

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              • #8
                Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                Whew, this ball is rolling fast!! New plan is to fly the subs in between the TLAH Pros; this opens many options for larger cabinets.
                "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                  Build a couple of Tham 15. Lot better sounding than any br-box.
                  "It is only Scrooge McDuck and others with a personality disorder who have money as their goal"

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                  • #10
                    Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                    Originally posted by jonasz View Post
                    Build a couple of Tham 15. Lot better sounding than any br-box.
                    Thanks, that's first I've heard of it so did some searching... YIKES! 35 pages of discussion on the DIY Audio forum!

                    This does fit the bill a little better regarding size.
                    "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                    "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                      Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                      Thanks, that's first I've heard of it so did some searching... YIKES! 35 pages of discussion on the DIY Audio forum!

                      This does fit the bill a little better regarding size.
                      This is the designers homepage, you will find drawings and measurements of the different Tham models.

                      "It is only Scrooge McDuck and others with a personality disorder who have money as their goal"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                        Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                        What's a "power alley situation"; and in a perfect world where would ideal placement be?
                        Read the 'Sub Placement' section that appears at the end of most, if not all, of the pro-sound sub plans on your CD.
                        www.billfitzmaurice.com
                        www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                          Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                          Read the 'Sub Placement' section that appears at the end of most, if not all, of the pro-sound sub plans on your CD.
                          I actually did and that's why your original comment didn't make any sense. Quote from your sub placement section...

                          While it’s customary with PA to have subs to either side of the stage, under the mains, that’s usually the worst way to place them. Subs work best when they’re placed either close together for mutual coupling, or spread very wide to cover large areas. The basic rule is to have them either less than a quarter-wavelength apart or more than two wavelengths apart for their pass band, which for 40 to 100 Hz means less than 2.8 feet or more than 56 feet
                          So I really don't understand what you're saying, because in the original pic (maybe it's tough to tell by the arrows?) I have them against the far walls, more than 56' apart. So what's wrong with that???
                          "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                          "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                            Originally posted by mattsk8 View Post
                            I actually did and that's why your original comment didn't make any sense. ..
                            I recall this from discussion between Ivan B eaver and Bob McCarthy:
                            "Everything regarding loudspeakers and how they are deplyed(spl) is a compromise. It is all about finding the best compromise for a particular situation. "
                            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
                            “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
                            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help With Choosing Subs For Church System

                              Originally posted by jonasz View Post
                              This is the designers homepage, you will find drawings and measurements of the different Tham models.

                              http://www.martinsson.cc/blog/index....y110105-073535
                              You have me pretty excited about the Tham 18 now that I looked, those end at about 31.5" tall x about 23.5" wide. A pair of those stacked and flown in between the mains would look pretty hot!! How do I find out the available options for which 18" woofer to use in those cabinets?

                              Digging around I found it was designed around these FaitalPRO 18HP1060 woofers. While I have no good reason not to use those woofers, I do have a certain loyalty to Eminence, mainly because they donated the door prize I won in Louisville . Does Eminence make a suitable woofer for this application? I'm not opposed to trying, but I've never used hornresp software to try to figure that out.
                              "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                              "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                              Comment

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