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Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

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  • #61
    Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

    I may have missed it but have you posted a non-EQ'd FR for the array? If not, would you be able to do so?

    thanks
    David

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    • #62
      Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

      Hey David,
      I think Javi's measurements before EQ is on post #20. Javi can correct us if I'm wrong...

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      • #63
        Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

        How about these puppies in terms of potential driver in like minded design? Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm.

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        • #64
          Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

          Originally posted by dst View Post
          How about these puppies in terms of potential driver in like minded design? Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm.
          I can only "guess" that performance would improve but... at more than three times the cost for the drivers.
          "We are just statistics, born to consume resources."
          ~Horace~, 65-8 BC

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          • #65
            Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

            Those graphs in #20 appear to be EQ'd. just smoothed and unsmoothed.
            David

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

              ^No they are not. But there are eq curves - just imagine uneq'd response! We can see more than 20dB of bass eq, no wonder distortion can be an issue. Treble eq is compensation of comb filtering, is it really necessary by ear?

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post

                Channel 1 of EQ.


                Channel 2 of EQ.
                None of the measurements are of the raw line array. But these are the most telling of the frequency response of the line. If you inverse these, it is what you would expect from the line... when summed the target is a flat freq. response.

                The best we have to take away from these measurements I'm afraid.
                Last edited by rmeinke; 01-31-2015, 06:33 PM.

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                • #68
                  Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                  Originally posted by VegaMan View Post
                  This is what I've found myself playing around with these. right now i have 6 per side and theyre blending with stereo subs pretty nicely. did you do anything for BSC?


                  that's a lot of eq down low. at volume do they "muddy" at all? loving your write up.


                  with these drivers i dont think you could get down to 20hz. imho a pair or more of subs built into the arrays would do a far better job at volume.
                  No, they don't muddy at all, but they can't keep up at higher levels.

                  I've done several simulations with different drivers, including the ones Roger Russell used, and they cannot, and will not, reproduce 20 Hz at anything over 90 something dB levels. I can't imagine how he did it.
                  Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
                  2-2.5 Way:
                  Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
                  3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                    Originally posted by thekorvers View Post
                    I don't understand why you guys are so insistent on forcing these arrays to play the full frequency spectrum. Because of the non-directionality of the lower frequencies, there should be no problem seamlessly integrating one or more subwoofers into the system. Why force these small drivers to do what they were not designed for and introduce distortion and other problems into the process.

                    You can probably fit a round peg into a square hole by beating enough on it, but why would you?
                    40-45 Hz does seem to be the lower limit for this array.

                    Having said that:

                    A side by side subwoofer getting to 20 Hz sounds amazing, but something's lost on the array. If I had to say what, I'd think some of the coherence is lost, and the magical "top-down" sound is dead. Even though I played with the level, crossover settings, etc, it always happens. The speaker does sound better without a subwoofer, although not as loud.
                    Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
                    2-2.5 Way:
                    Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
                    3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                      Originally posted by rmeinke View Post
                      Hey David,
                      I think Javi's measurements before EQ is on post #20. Javi can correct us if I'm wrong...
                      No, I didn't post them. They are a complete mess! I could do a quick and dirty measurement tomorrow, but be warned... it's pretty ugly stuff.
                      Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
                      2-2.5 Way:
                      Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
                      3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                        Interesting thread. I saw you mentioned crossing to your sub at 80 Hz, why not try 40 since the XO will
                        be 6 dB down at 40 Hz? I also notice that your EQ boost rises fast below 60 so if not 40 perhaps 50 or 60 Hz.
                        I'd think that should help keep the arrays sounding full range.
                        Hmmm, has me thinking of a line array for the sub:
                        http://www.dougronald.com/images/IRS_2.jpg

                        I don't know if that woofer tower has any of the advantages of distributed subs, but the Harman concept
                        for distributed subs is something else to think about.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                          So long for the array. A friend of my dad heard it and bought it in the spot. Can't say I did badly: $2,200. I'll probably build another one, with the Vifas. But not this year. These things really, really, really are a pain!
                          Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
                          2-2.5 Way:
                          Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
                          3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                            Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post
                            So long for the array. A friend of my dad heard it and bought it in the spot. Can't say I did badly: $2,200. I'll probably build another one, with the Vifas. But not this year. These things really, really, really are a pain!
                            Congratulations! That should be a validation of your speaker building prowess!:applause:
                            “I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet”

                            If we all did the things we are capable of doing, we would literally ASTOUND ourselves - Thomas A. Edison

                            Some people collect stamps, Imelda Marcos collected shoes. I collect speakers.:D

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                              Bummer man... but $2,200 will buy a lot of drivers You made out quite nicely!!
                              Last edited by rmeinke; 02-27-2015, 12:24 AM.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Yet Another IDS-25 Clone! 25 Fountek FE-83 drivers in a line array

                                Guess it's time for some nd90s?

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