Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

[contoursvt]

I just built an H-framed stand to hold different baffles in place so I can do some quick mock ups for when I have to test drivers together. I've noticed the midrange and midbass of drivers out in the open to seem like they are far more clean and I feel there is more detail and 'attack' than vented and sealed cabinets. Granted I'm not hearing any real bass. Is that why it seems more clear or is open baffle typically much more clear because the back wave is not coming through the cone like in a boxed speaker? I assume no matter how well a box is dampened and how much sound insulation there is, something makes its way back through the cone.

I'm almost tempted to try and make an open baffle speaker with a small sealed sub to handle the lows. That is if there is a benefit in terms of clarity and perceived detail. I almost cant listen to my other speakers because they sound slow and dull now compared to my test frame which incidentally has the same compression driver and horn as my main speakers but woofer is different. Its a Fane 12" cast frame driver. I cant remember the model off hand. Something with a 300 in the model.

If anyone here has open baffle or built any, I wouldn't mind any input on what I'm hearing

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

I'm not hearing any real bass. Is that why it seems more clear

Yes. With no lows present there's nothing to mask the rest of the spectrum.

[contoursvt]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

Yes. With no lows present there's nothing to mask the rest of the spectrum.

Thanks Bill! I thought I was going crazy. Everything just seemed so razor sharp but this kind of makes sense then. I will drag my old Yamaha 8" sub out of storage and hook it up along with the test baffle and bring it in to a level that seems right and see how it sounds. Either way, it was exciting to hear tiny things in the music that I never heard or noticed before.

[rmeinke]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

I found open baffle to perform this way as well. I can hear words formed on the singers lips, breathing, background noises, more hall acoustic and air around instruments that I could not hear from many, many speakers I have had the pleasure of listening to over the years.

Once you hear a well done OB you won't go back to a boxed speaker again. I had the same experience that you did contoursvt. I could not believe how clear and articulate OB was, it was special from the first moment I listened to them. After a vintage AlNiCo full-ranger buying spree and experimental phase I finally settled on a nice pair of 4" Tang Band bamboo drivers over dual 10's driven by Jung plate amps with 6db boost. I am getting flat response down to about 35Hz.

As much as I enjoyed them I didn't realize how compromised a speaker in a box sounded until I lent one of my audio system to good friends for their daughter's graduation party. After I set up and played the first track using my friends digital music collection I could not believe how lifeless and muddy everything sounded. I nosed around his laptop trying to see if he had an app with EQ or something that could be responsible for the poor quality. Room? Hmmm. I played via my iPhone... same. Still in disbelief, as soon as I got the speakers back home I set them up in my listening room. Yup. Same. This from a set of small monitors that sent a very nice pair of Jeff Bagby designed monitors to the closet.

Needless to say, I have not listened to a speaker in a box since. Even for my small listening room the OB's are heavenly. Not that it matters but in the 80's and into the mid 90's I built nearly every kit from Focal, Eton, Dynaudio, Accuton, Vifa, Seas, etc. that I could get my hands. Driven by equipment from MFA, Quicksilver, Mellos, B&K, Sumo, Electron Kinetic and a few others. Respectable audio systems have graced my listening room over the years and can say that OB is very enjoyable to listen to.

What you are hearing will only get better as you integrate an open baffle H, U or flat panel to cover the full audio range. OB bass is even better than OB mid-range in my opinion. You are spot on good sir!

[rmeinke]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

I want to add that it was because of OB and how well they performed that I began looking for other non-mainstream speaker technologies/design approaches that I had run across over the last few years. Just to see what else might bring yet another enjoyable way to listen to speakers.

That lead me to DML panels. For many years I thought that these, attach to nearly anything exciters and whaaaa laaa... its a speaker, were a total joke... I was wrong. Not ready to say DML panel is or will ever be "better" than traditional OBs but they are very nice with a completely different presentation that are just plain fun to listen to.

I wanted to disclose this to stay authentic to the DML thread DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love that was started a few weeks ago.

[6thplanet]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

OB fan for life here, too. I haven't put a mid in a box since my first experience with open baffle clarity. I suggest anyone who's never tried it to do so.

[contoursvt]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

Wow now you totally have me thinking about building a set. I've got two mini-dsp from another project and I've got some amps laying around so I might easily be able to do a 3 way setup! The only issue might be placement because I assume the open baffle need to be at least 2-3 feet away from the wall(s). I guess it doesn't matter. Its easy enough to try. I even have spare wood!

I found open baffle to perform this way as well. I can hear words formed on the singers lips, breathing, background noises, more hall acoustic and air around instruments that I could not hear from many, many speakers I have had the pleasure of listening to over the years.

Once you hear a well done OB you won't go back to a boxed speaker again. I had the same experience that you did contoursvt. I could not believe how clear and articulate OB was, it was special from the first moment I listened to them. After a vintage AlNiCo full-ranger buying spree and experimental phase I finally settled on a nice pair of 4" Tang Band bamboo drivers over dual 10's driven by Jung plate amps with 6db boost. I am getting flat response down to about 35Hz.

As much as I enjoyed them I didn't realize how compromised a speaker in a box sounded until I lent one of my audio system to good friends for their daughter's graduation party. After I set up and played the first track using my friends digital music collection I could not believe how lifeless and muddy everything sounded. I nosed around his laptop trying to see if he had an app with EQ or something that could be responsible for the poor quality. Room? Hmmm. I played via my iPhone... same. Still in disbelief, as soon as I got the speakers back home I set them up in my listening room. Yup. Same. This from a set of small monitors that sent a very nice pair of Jeff Bagby designed monitors to the closet.

Needless to say, I have not listened to a speaker in a box since. Even for my small listening room the OB's are heavenly. Not that it matters but in the 80's and into the mid 90's I built nearly every kit from Focal, Eton, Dynaudio, Accuton, Vifa, Seas, etc. that I could get my hands. Driven by equipment from MFA, Quicksilver, Mellos, B&K, Sumo, Electron Kinetic and a few others. Respectable audio systems have graced my listening room over the years and can say that OB is very enjoyable to listen to.

What you are hearing will only get better as you integrate an open baffle H, U or flat panel to cover the full audio range. OB bass is even better than OB mid-range in my opinion. You are spot on good sir!

[piazzafatb]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

OB fan here.
For me it's totally different sound.
Mids specially are differents.
Lows ahhhhhh, needs tweaking...
Openness and image in my set (Hestia) are great.
Trying to set my double 12" for bass duties but so far for music are great.

[natehansen66]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

Once you hear a well done OB you won't go back to a boxed speaker again.

I've read that many times but I think it comes down to preference. I used dipoles for a couple years before switching back to boxes. I don't remember any "loss of detail or clarity" going back to a box, and the increased spl capability and dynamics over the dipole was quite welcome. IDK, maybe I missed the "well done" part. I currently use an acoustic resistance box for midrange (kinda like a dipole but with a damped rear wave), not because I gain anything sq wise but for directivity purposes.

contour - you don't know until you try!

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

My experience with open baffles was that Frequency Response was king (again). Yes, the first time you hear a driver in an open baffle, it's a sort of "rediscovery," but there's a very specific reason for that: the FR is all kinds of screwed up! YOu have the dipole peak going on--which is usually somewhere in the mid hundreds based on normal-size baffles, so all of a sudden, the midrange seems so "clear." Then there's the 6 dB rolloff in the bass, which again brings out the mids and treble. So for a while, it seems all revelatory. But then you start to realize that it's just the FR that's colored, and you want things flat again--well, I did, anyway. That's what I did with the Sunflower Redux; I brought it all back down to flat. At that point, well, it pretty much sounded like a normal speaker again . The sound seemed slightly more "immersive" than what I'd gotten from boxed speakers, like a giant set of headphones. But that was about it.

[craigk]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

I found open baffle to perform this way as well. I can hear words formed on the singers lips, breathing, background noises, more hall acoustic and air around instruments that I could not hear from many, many speakers I have had the pleasure of listening to over the years.

Once you hear a well done OB you won't go back to a boxed speaker again. I had the same experience that you did contoursvt. I could not believe how clear and articulate OB was, it was special from the first moment I listened to them. After a vintage AlNiCo full-ranger buying spree and experimental phase I finally settled on a nice pair of 4" Tang Band bamboo drivers over dual 10's driven by Jung plate amps with 6db boost. I am getting flat response down to about 35Hz.

As much as I enjoyed them I didn't realize how compromised a speaker in a box sounded until I lent one of my audio system to good friends for their daughter's graduation party. After I set up and played the first track using my friends digital music collection I could not believe how lifeless and muddy everything sounded. I nosed around his laptop trying to see if he had an app with EQ or something that could be responsible for the poor quality. Room? Hmmm. I played via my iPhone... same. Still in disbelief, as soon as I got the speakers back home I set them up in my listening room. Yup. Same. This from a set of small monitors that sent a very nice pair of Jeff Bagby designed monitors to the closet.

Needless to say, I have not listened to a speaker in a box since. Even for my small listening room the OB's are heavenly. Not that it matters but in the 80's and into the mid 90's I built nearly every kit from Focal, Eton, Dynaudio, Accuton, Vifa, Seas, etc. that I could get my hands. Driven by equipment from MFA, Quicksilver, Mellos, B&K, Sumo, Electron Kinetic and a few others. Respectable audio systems have graced my listening room over the years and can say that OB is very enjoyable to listen to.

What you are hearing will only get better as you integrate an open baffle H, U or flat panel to cover the full audio range. OB bass is even better than OB mid-range in my opinion. You are spot on good sir!

if they can do all this I wonder why there are not more commercial designs building open baffle systems ?

[contoursvt]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

if they can do all this I wonder why there are not more commercial designs building open baffle systems ?

I think Jamo has some fairly big open baffle from what I researched and I guess would Magnapan be considered open baffle? I know its not cone drivers but its open on both sides.

[JRT]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

if they can do all this I wonder why there are not more commercial designs building open baffle systems ?

I too like the sound of open baffle. But it comes at a cost associated with the acoustic short circuit at the edge of the baffle which imposes an additional 6dB/octave excursion limited rolloff.

So swept volume requirement from the woofer scales accordingly, with an inverse cube relationship to frequency at constant SPL as compared to the inverse square relationship of a sealed alignment.

1 decade lower, 1/10 the frequency, requires 100x increased excursion from a woofer in sealed alignment, or 1000x increased excursion from a woofer on open baffle operating below the characteristic corner frequency of the gradient alignment.

[rb132333]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

Here is my perspective - I luv open baffle with one caveat; you need more space for them to sound great. It needs breathing room behind and to the sides (at least 3 ft). If you do not have the room, it can be a little overwhelming. One other point, high efficiency drivers are a better choice.

I have Vifa XT25 on top; BG NEO 10 for mid-range and Dayton 12" Series II for low end. I also have BIC F12 subwoofer.

p.s. .....now I need a bigger room :-)

[MSaturn]

Re: Is it just perception? Open baffle speaker related....

JAMO also went out of that business. I bought a bunch of their drivers from PE.

Paul is right - there's inherent EQ in open baffle systems. You can digital EQ it out again; there are other pleasing properties to dipole sound, like the reflected sound from the back of your listening space.

That said, I'll bet the farm that in a blind listening test, a well-built traditional system and a well-built OB would both get all kind of crazy adjectival raves from listeners.