FrankenC CNC

[r-carpenter]

"The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production, and thereby the relations of production, and with them the whole relations of society. Conservation of the old modes of production in unaltered form, was, on the contrary, the first condition of existence for all earlier industrial classes. Constant revolutionizing of production, uninterrupted disturbance of all social conditions, everlasting uncertainty, and agitation distinguish the bourgeois epoch from all earlier ones. All fixed, fast frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all which is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real condition of life and his relations with his kind."


And so I decided to upgrade the shop capability by adding CNC router. As some of you guys know, I recently went to City Tech school and took about 5 month of digital fabrication classes. It included Rhino-5 3-D modeling, some Grasshopper parametric programing and even introduction to Python (which I dreaded). I also got a chance to work on some 3axis Chinese CNC routers and 5-axis Uber mills. Having a second choice for an upgrade as a SawStop I decided to wait on safety and invest in the capability. There are 7 woodworking shops on the floor and I'd be the only one with the CNC.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ is an excellent resource as it sports the same number of crazy DIY guys as this forum but building various computer numerical control machines. To save some time and effort I've decided to go with partially pre-assembled kit from CNC Router Parts. Saves me some time and the need to learn a new profession, wiring controllers and boards. PRO4896 4' x 8' CNC Router Kit is the chosen configuration. If the finantial situation is good than I'll probably add HDS spindle, if not, one of the VFD controlled Asian deals to get by. Tool changer would be great but it adds up $8k or so to the cost of the spindle alone. Manual tool change it is.
The build will take around 2-3 month.





Friend has donated 4 cast iron machine stands. Probably from 1940s, around 200lbs each. We going to weld a (1"x3" steel) sub frame which will bolt to the top of the stands and will accept 8020 aluminum CNC table.
More to come as the build continues.

[[email protected]]

Re: FrankenC CNC

Nice Roman.

[Kevin K.]

Re: FrankenC CNC

I had a friend from work that built a small 3-axis CNC in his garage and I think he went the same route you are talking about with a predesigned controller, can definitely be done. Sadly, he passed away in his sleep shortly after completing it. 31 years old, they said it was sleep apnea. Darn shame, he was smart as a whip and would probably have plenty of suggestions for you. One of my many responsibilities at work is programming and operating a 5-axis CNC. Have you made any kind of decision on programming software? We have a tool changer, over-rated unless you are going to be cutting the same program day in and day out. If you are primarily thinking about cutting MDF on this, I have two suggestions.

One, build a vacuum table to hold the sheets down, makes life so much easier when dealing with the sheets.

Two, invest in a [email protected] shop vac and try to incorporate the hose attachment close to the cutter. I'm sure you have cut MDF with a hand router, that's nothing compared to the rooster tails of dust a CNC can generate. Best of Luck, and I'll be following your thread.

[r-carpenter]

Re: FrankenC CNC

TY
I have Rhino5 (purchased as a student with a good discount) as a modeler. I like it. Going with Mach3 as a CNC controller software and haven't decided on CAD/CAM. Rhino CAM would be nice but it's pricy, so I'll look in to other packages. Looks like most have free trials and I can play around before buying. I'd guess, profiling and V-grooving will be majority of the work and any CAD/CAM are capable of that.
Vacuum table is planned but a bit later. I'll be looking in to local auctions to see if I could pick up a used pump.
I have a fully equipped shop with couple of dust collectors, so I will use 2hp Delta for the time being but will get a dedicated [email protected] dust collector in the future.
While this set up is not nearly as pricy as a purchased new CNC 4'x8' it's still going to add up to 10-12k then all set and done, so I am building step by step. Not taking credit from the bank.
future suggestions are greatly appreciated.
What are you running at work Kevin ?

[greywarden]

Re: FrankenC CNC

Very cool, congrats on the awesome upgrade!

[Kevin K.]

Re: FrankenC CNC

We are running MasterCam 10, which doesn't come cheap, 20K if I recall right and then a $2500 per year service contract which primarily gets you all future upgrades and "free" tech support. Funny how they call it free at $2500 a year. This software is probably more advanced then you would need and is aimed at large machine shops with multiple types of machines. I write programs for our MotionMaster 5-axis CNC router, it has two 5x5 tables that can be run separately or tied together through the computer which yields a 5x10 table. It has a 36" Z stroke, so we can cut some pretty tall stuff if needed. I love it!! If you are mechanically inclined, these machines can be as addictive as speaker building! I'm sure you are going to enjoy your new toy once it is completed.

Just be cautious, I have seen some crazy things happen when a programmer was having a bad day, for example, a guy programmed a fly cut with a 1-1/2" Flat Endmill cutter that was in a 6" tool extender, normally you would run a tool like this at around 8000 rpm max, he programmed it at 18000 rpm! It sounded like an airplane prop engine coming up to speed right before it threw it through the side of our sheetmetal building. It went through the metal like a hot knife in butter. Had it hit anyone, it would have killed them. Long story short, you will be dealing with a very powerful tool, as long as you respect it, its gonna be tons of fun!

[Kevin K.]

Re: FrankenC CNC

http://bobcad.com/products/milling/3d-cnc-milling-standard-software/

Hey Roman,

I used this stuff about a decade ago, it has probably come along way since then. Seems reasonably priced and might fit your needs well. Like the others you mentioned, it has a demo trial available.

[john trials]

Re: FrankenC CNC

If you have dust collectors, you could use one of them for vacuum hold-down on your table. With that aluminum frame you have, it wouldn't be hard to seal the bottom and connect a dust collector (or even a shop vac) to provide low pressure under the workpiece. It doesn't take much to produce a lot of force on a 4' x 8' piece of wood.

[TN Allen]

Re: FrankenC CNC

' "The bourgeoisie cannot exist without constantly revolutionizing the instruments of production,..." '

Just curious, who's quote?

You might see if as a student of City Tech(You are fortunate to have a local resource to learn about this, and help setting up.) you are eligible to buy KeyCreator and Key Machinist from Kubotek. Even if you don't use Direct Modeling, you can import your Rhino files to KC, then develop your tool paths in KM. Students pay little for these programs. I know many people do not use, or like Direct Modeling, but this could be an inexpensive solution to software.

And, if you like, I'd be happy to send you waveguide files I've developed, as well as the tool paths, and can probably post the TPs for Mach3.

If anyone is interested in playing with CNC cheaply, and in a small way, Synthetos has a small G-code controller, TinyG. I haven't connected the one I have yet, so I can't say how much trouble is involved in actually doing anything, but Adafruit sells these and 3 small stepper motors for around $200. It could be an inexpensive way to transition later to larger motors.

http://synthetos.myshopify.com/products/tinyg

http://www.adafruit.com/products/1749

Given what I've seen of your work via photos, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with a CNC router.

[Zephyr]

Re: FrankenC CNC

Great stuff, Roman.

You're taking a more logical path into CNC than I in that you are learning and considering software first rather than after the fact. I particularly envy your skills with Rhino.

Like you, I built my own CNC 3 axis table, 5KW spindle, with a cut capacity of 6' X 20'. The design is a Mechmate. The reason for the size is to enable the cutting of a 5' X 20' aluminum sheet. I became fascinated with CNC after having a boat designed by a naval architect in New Zealand, and having it cut here in the US. I was astounded at the accuracy of the parts and decided I needed that capability. I built the electronics up from a CandCNC breakout board using Gecko drives. The machine software is Mach3. There was a certain amount of hair pulling involved in setting it up but once done has remained working flawlessly for years. I would like to make a recommendation that you take a hard look at the software package I use for design and machine code translation. Vectric. Support, development, cost, capabilities, free upgrades for years, pure ease of use, after trying many of the others I wouldn't even think about using anything other than the Vectric package.

Good luck with your machine build, and welcome to a fascinating endeavor. It's still magic when I hit the go button, watch the thousands of lines of code scroll by on the Mach screen, and see that big gantry do its intricate dance. BTW, the recommendations for a vacuum table and efficient dust collection system are right on. You'll need em.

[Dwight]

Re: FrankenC CNC

Karl Marx, The Communist Manifesto

[LongHorn64]

Re: FrankenC CNC

I am not worthy, I am not worthy! Just thinking about CNC makes me start to salivate like Pavlov's Dogs. I like it, all the best, Mike

[Pete Basel]

Re: FrankenC CNC

Nice, automation is so cool!
I've done some work in robotics.

[kenny_k]

Re: FrankenC CNC

Just been to a jeweler yesterday and was watching a video he made of a setting he designed, beautiful work. He use Rhino with a 3d printer to create the model used for casting, wild. When I told him about Roman's CNC he drooled. This hot stuff.

[r-carpenter]

Re: FrankenC CNC

We are running MasterCam 10, which doesn't come cheap, 20K if I recall right and then a $2500 per year service contract which primarily gets you all future upgrades and "free" tech support. Funny how they call it free at $2500 a year. This software is probably more advanced then you would need and is aimed at large machine shops with multiple types of machines. I write programs for our MotionMaster 5-axis CNC router, it has two 5x5 tables that can be run separately or tied together through the computer which yields a 5x10 table. It has a 36" Z stroke, so we can cut some pretty tall stuff if needed. I love it!! If you are mechanically inclined, these machines can be as addictive as speaker building! I'm sure you are going to enjoy your new toy once it is completed.

Just be cautious, I have seen some crazy things happen when a programmer was having a bad day, for example, a guy programmed a fly cut with a 1-1/2" Flat Endmill cutter that was in a 6" tool extender, normally you would run a tool like this at around 8000 rpm max, he programmed it at 18000 rpm! It sounded like an airplane prop engine coming up to speed right before it threw it through the side of our sheetmetal building. It went through the metal like a hot knife in butter. Had it hit anyone, it would have killed them. Long story short, you will be dealing with a very powerful tool, as long as you respect it, its gonna be tons of fun!

That's a big and complicated machine. Looking at the images I am thinking 600ipm. But the tilt on the spindle is super nice. If I can figure out the way to add another motor and add 4th axis to the spindle, couple of years down the road, it would be awesome. People add rotational axis most of the time. That could be doable too. Ohhhh the possibilities.............
I understand the safety. Respecting the tools is a must.
BobCAD is definitely on my list. It's priced well and look capable. Going to play with it then machine is operational (to get a use out of a free trial)