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  • Fullrange for pop music

    Does anybody have any experience of using full range mainly for pop music rather than classical or light music? Are there any suitable cones for this? What makes fullrange better than multiway?

  • #2
    Re: Fullrange for pop music

    Multiway is a conspiracy by the crossover part manufacturers and speaker designers. Soon the fad will pass :rolleyes:

    Francis
    Francis

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    • #3
      Re: Fullrange for pop music

      Seriously, though, the problems a full-ranger have are typically either no top end (or top end roll0ff, which is basically the same as poor high freq. dispersion - the larger the dia. of a cone, the greater its tendency to "beam" those upper freqs. out - think "spot light" coverage instead of "flood light"), and/or no bottom end (the smaller the dia. of the cone (the less surface area it has) the farther the cone has to move (Xmax) to produce enough energy at the lowest freqs.).

      How low do you need to go? Most "pop" ends around 40Hz. I know a 3" FR driver that can do a respectable 50Hz (but not at high volumes), and a 4"er that CAN do 40Hz, and quite strongly in multiples, but really needs a tweeter to get a nice top end.

      Many of the more esoteric FR drivers (like Lowther?) use a kind of a "whizzer" cone to try to help with the top end, but the ones I'm familiar with really didn't have very good bottom end output.

      You should be able to get a lot of the "benefits" of a full-ranger (like a 3", maybe) by adding a proper subwoofer, which shouldn't ruin any of the FR's "imaging", while still rounding out the bottom end.

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      • #4
        Re: Fullrange for pop music

        Fullrangers can be fun to play with, despite their (rather serious) limitations. Nelson Pass reviews some decent examples of fullrange drivers here, with an eye to the advantages of current drive:

        http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_cs_amps.pdf

        Francis
        Francis

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        • #5
          Re: Fullrange for pop music

          For a small desktop design, maybe. Otherwise, NO.
          "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

          http://www.diy-ny.com/

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          • #6
            Re: Fullrange for pop music

            These sound pretty good to me. I don't have any way to get Katy Perry to play through them though. Unless I bought something.

            http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...river--295-346

            Check out the wall of speakers.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N015Y_et3X0#t=47

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            • #7
              Re: Fullrange for pop music

              Originally posted by djg View Post
              These sound pretty good to me. I don't have any way to get Katy Perry to play through them though.
              You need sharks; she's attracted to them.

              Francis
              Francis

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              • #8
                Re: Fullrange for pop music

                If you are dead set on a full range speaker there are a couple designs available on this forum and more on the net There are probably more that I am not aware of:

                1. Zaph has a full range design using a Hi Vi 3" metal cone driver
                2. RJB has a full range 4" design using a Tang Band driver in a double-chamber or normal base reflex design
                3. There is a minion design which uses a Tang band 3" poly cone driver. The information for these three are all on the PE forum
                4. I saw on the net a design named the Cyburg Needles which used a Tang Band 3" driver. This design used a tall skinny enclosure.
                5. I saw a design similar to the Needles on youtube which used a Tang band 881 series 3" poly driver which sounded ok on my lousy pc speakers. Search on Tang Band.
                5. Tang Band offers two small horn loaded kit systems using either a 3" or a 4" high end full range driver.
                6. Madisound carries the Fostex drivers and has drawings of enclosure designs most of which are very complicated horn type enclosures.
                7. Martin King has a large transmission line based full range design.
                8. There are designs shown on the DIY Audio web page and other diy sites.

                This will give you something to read. Please note that even though a cross over is not required most of these designs have a few electronic components to adjust the response and/or for baffle step compensation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Fullrange for pop music

                  Originally posted by Chris Roemer View Post
                  Seriously, though, the problems a full-ranger have are typically either no top end (or top end roll0ff, which is basically the same as poor high freq. dispersion - the larger the dia. of a cone, the greater its tendency to "beam" those upper freqs. out - think "spot light" coverage instead of "flood light"), and/or no bottom end (the smaller the dia. of the cone (the less surface area it has) the farther the cone has to move (Xmax) to produce enough energy at the lowest freqs.).

                  How low do you need to go? Most "pop" ends around 40Hz. I know a 3" FR driver that can do a respectable 50Hz (but not at high volumes), and a 4"er that CAN do 40Hz, and quite strongly in multiples, but really needs a tweeter to get a nice top end.

                  Many of the more esoteric FR drivers (like Lowther?) use a kind of a "whizzer" cone to try to help with the top end, but the ones I'm familiar with really didn't have very good bottom end output.

                  You should be able to get a lot of the "benefits" of a full-ranger (like a 3", maybe) by adding a proper subwoofer, which shouldn't ruin any of the FR's "imaging", while still rounding out the bottom end.
                  what about markaudio drivers? they can do 30khz. Can multiway do what fullrange can?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Fullrange for pop music

                    I use these fullrange drivers in my garage for a variety of music:

                    Mark Audio CHR70 - There are several different enclosure designs to be found. Madisound has links.
                    Dayton ND90 - Again a couple different designs out there.

                    While I like the low end of the ND90, the CHR70 has a nice mid and top end.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fullrange for pop music

                      Originally posted by fixthedoor View Post
                      I use these fullrange drivers in my garage for a variety of music:

                      Mark Audio CHR70 - There are several different enclosure designs to be found. Madisound has links.
                      Dayton ND90 - Again a couple different designs out there.

                      While I like the low end of the ND90, the CHR70 has a nice mid and top end.
                      what are the differences between all the markaudio drivers?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fullrange for pop music

                        Originally posted by speakerdesign View Post
                        what about markaudio drivers? they can do 30khz. Can multiway do what fullrange can?
                        You are going to have to laser align and level the speakers so that they are aimed directly at your ear cavity if you want to "hear" anything that high up. Dont move a millimeter either.

                        What exactly is it that "fullrange can" do that multiway cant? I feel like I'm about to get educated :rolleyes:
                        http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

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                        • #13
                          Re: Fullrange for pop music

                          Originally posted by speakerdesign View Post
                          Does anybody have any experience of using full range mainly for pop music rather than classical or light music? Are there any suitable cones for this? What makes fullrange better than multiway?
                          Search for designs built around the eminence beta 12LTA and super tweeters . They aren't small if you want convincing bass

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                          • #14
                            Re: Fullrange for pop music

                            Originally posted by speakerdesign View Post
                            what about markaudio drivers? they can do 30khz. Can multiway do what fullrange can?
                            The JBL DD67000 can do 60kHz. If you can hear that high, it has good off-axis performance up there too.

                            Francis
                            Francis

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fullrange for pop music

                              Originally posted by Jay1 View Post
                              You are going to have to laser align and level the speakers so that they are aimed directly at your ear cavity if you want to "hear" anything that high up. Dont move a millimeter either.

                              What exactly is it that "fullrange can" do that multiway cant? I feel like I'm about to get educated :rolleyes:
                              phase and time coherence and transient response. And since the amp is directly going into the driver there's less interference and noise from crossovers which produce lobing. And a blurred stereo image due to spaced out drivers. When the sound goes from bass to treble, your ears hear the sound shift from top to bottom.

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