SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

[ErinH]

I bought these to use in my car as midranges from 300-2khz. As you can see, there is about a 5dB bump in response beginning at about 1.5khz, I assume caused by the dust cap. To that, the Scan Speak 15m exhibits the same bump a bit earlier in frequency. You can see their spec sheet here. While the FR isn't ruler flat, the bump in response in my measurements occurs where beaming begins, so this may alleviate that issue by low-passing the mid before this point.

The 8khz (likely modal) bump is about 10dB higher than the response at 2khz. At 4khz there is approximately a 10dB delta between 0 and 60 degrees response. The HD looks VERY good. Even at 102dB @ 1/2m equivalent the THD above 150hz is less than 0.30%. The separation between 2nd and 3rd order distortion at this output has about a 15dB delta above 300hz which is very nice.

Overall not quite stellar FR, but given the likely crossover point here around the 2khz region, the issues beyond this point aren't of huge concern. The THD is very nice. Overall, I think this is a really good midwoofer (even better used as a midrange).

Subjectively I can say that I've been using these in my car for the past couple weeks and have been VERY impressed with them. I actually prefer them over the Scan 12m, and the Scan 15m/15w ... but I'm basing these impressions on aural memory which isn't great, so take that for what it's worth.

As an aside... these things are just plain gorgeous!


here's a link to the test results:

http://medleysmusings.com/mw13p-4/

Here's a picture:





PS: If you would like to help me keep up funds for testing, there's a little 'contribute' button that goes through Paypal all the way at the bottom of every page. Any little bit helps.. heck, $3 buys me painter's tape to help seal any small gaps in the baffle/blank interface. :D

[JRS]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Erin,

Thanks for the review. I have been wondering about these and a few other under 200. 13cm drivers. The Satori I know from having used it's bigger brother for a friends build (Jeff B's Kairos). I cannot recall exactly where but seems I read somewhere that you were going to look at the Motus MR's. That's also on my shortlist as is the VIFA NE. So just wondering if you ever tested those as I cannot find them on Medley's musings site.
Thanks,
john

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Usually that dip in response is caused by the way the surround behaves at those frequencies. It's pretty large and if the surround gets out of phase with the cone, cancellation would occur. Dedicated mids will usually opt for somewhat different surrounds so that type of edge cancellation is reduced.

Even so, that dip looks pretty narrow and likely hard to really notice since its so close to the crossover point. It IS a nice looking woofer. Reminds me of the Vifa NE series.

[ErinH]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Usually that dip in response is caused by the way the surround behaves at those frequencies. It's pretty large and if the surround gets out of phase with the cone, cancellation would occur. Dedicated mids will usually opt for somewhat different surrounds so that type of edge cancellation is reduced.

Even so, that dip looks pretty narrow and likely hard to really notice since its so close to the crossover point. It IS a nice looking woofer. Reminds me of the Vifa NE series.

I know what you mean. But, just to clarify... I'm not talking about the dip (that is also seen on the 6" version). I'm talking about the (for lack of better words) high-shelf that puts the response at 3khz about 4dB higher than 800dB starting at about 1.5khz. I asked a speaker designer about this once and he said it's the dust cap. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but that does make some semblance of sense and it also seems to be true of most speakers with a dust cap.

[ErinH]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

FWIW, a friend asked me how to determine % distortion from relative level. I think most of the folks here know this, but for those who don't...

Use this site:
THD to dB - convert percent % to decibels dB percentage voltage % vs per cent converter THD+N total harmonic distortions calculation signal distortion factor attenuation in dB to distortion factor k in percent decibel damping - sengpielaudio Sengpiel

For example, let's look at the following results at 102dB/1m equivalent:



Let's look at 1khz. At this frequency the fundamental is at approximately 114dB. The THD (blue) is at approximately 64dB. The difference between these two values is 50dB.
Punch (-50)dB in to the link and hit the "calculate" button and below it you'll get "0.3162278" %. That value is the distortion relative to the fundamental.

BTW, 0.32% THD is VERY low for a driver playing at 102dB/1m (102dB spl at 1 meter away).


Some common numbers worth memorizing are:
-30dB down from the fundamental = 3%
-40dB down from the fundamental = 1%

[timw]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

It been a while, so correct me if I am wrong. For the SoundEasy software harmonic distortion charts, the harmonic distortion level is read directly from the scale on the vertical Y axis, and not from the difference between the curves?

[MSaturn]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Hot damn. That's a fine driver.

Linear distortion is becoming more and more irrelevant as digital crossovers and EQ become cheaper.

[ErinH]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

Hot damn. That's a fine driver.

Linear distortion is becoming more and more irrelevant as digital crossovers and EQ become cheaper.

Yea. I actually did a 'study' on this at one point but for the life of me can't find the data!
I took a driver, measured it's HD at a given level. Then I applied some DSP crossover to it just to show how much the distortion components change when the driver it high-passed. I need to do this again...

[djkest]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

So it sounds like with the THD being so low at 102 dB, it would make a fine midrange for a system with high power handling capabilities. Would probably work well for a compact 2-way reference monitor, as the midbass distortion is also low. Thanks for testing and sharing your results.

[andy19191]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

So it sounds like with the THD being so low at 102 dB, it would make a fine midrange for a system with high power handling capabilities. Would probably work well for a compact 2-way reference monitor, as the midbass distortion is also low. Thanks for testing and sharing your results.

It doesn't look particularly suitable as a midrange for a high power monitor given the low efficiency, low power handling and low resonance compared to a dedicated 5" midrange. Not that anybody seems to be creating new midranges these days. Has anybody seen a more recent dedicated midrange than the 5" Scan Speak Discovery which nobody seems to be using?

[johnnyrichards]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

SB has a couple of midranges. Not super high efficiency, but high enough to keep up with a typical bottom end arrangement. Seas has a couple, and pretty much any decent full range, non whizzer drivers make excellent dedicated midranges IMHO.

[andy19191]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

SB has a couple of midranges. Not super high efficiency, but high enough to keep up with a typical bottom end arrangement. Seas has a couple, and pretty much any decent full range, non whizzer drivers make excellent dedicated midranges IMHO.

I was aware of the 4" from SB but it is small, low power, low efficiency. The old 5" midrange from SEAS is a typical midrange but the newer one is like the SB in being small, low power, low efficiency. Companies like Dayton, Tymphany, and others don't even make midranges. Has the demand for traditional midranges really disappeared?

[johnnyrichards]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

I think a midrange with sensitivity in the upper 80's is more than sufficient, there is usually some bandpass gain, and unless you are running big pro audio woofers overall system sensitivity will rarely exceed the upper 80's anyhoo. YMMV.

[djkest]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

I was aware of the 4" from SB but it is small, low power, low efficiency. The old 5" midrange from SEAS is a typical midrange but the newer one is like the SB in being small, low power, low efficiency. Companies like Dayton, Tymphany, and others don't even make midranges. Has the demand for traditional midranges really disappeared?

It's not low power or low efficiency. 88.5 db/2.83 V and when crossed above 300 hz I am sure it could take 100 watts with the vented frame and vented pole piece (crossover will absorb some power as well. ) And there is nothing wrong with being small.

Scan Speak makes a tremendous midrange but it's $95.

[timw]

Re: SB Acoustics' Satori MW13P-4 5" Mid Testing

For the second time.

It's been a while, so correct me if I am wrong. For the SoundEasy software harmonic distortion charts, the harmonic distortion level is read directly from the scale on the vertical Y axis, and not from the difference between the curves?