Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

[Jeff B.]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

I am really curious as to what woofer you are going to use, but I think you don't want to reveal it just yet so people won't be analyzing and second-guessing your choice. Since Meniscus carries it, there are only about a dozen drivers it could be, based on your criteria.
I like the 8" Vifa NE225W-4 Neo driver, but it's a little pricey. But still, seems to perform well in a smallish bass module function, according to my primitive models.
However you talking about another production run makes me think you are talking about the Eclipse W1038R.

I am still wrong, however.

I guess I can share the driver. For a passive application I need to meet a specific sensitivity, I needed it to work in a predetermined enclosure, and I wanted it to be able to reach into the 20's to make it worthwhile. Since the drivers in the Kairos are pretty advanced I didn't want to just use an inexpensive standard motor woofer, but I didn't need to break the bank either. For example, I considered the new Morel Supreme subwoofer drivers, which use the same motor that's in Magico speakers, but I decided those were a bit costly to sell well. I also considered the SB29NRX, which was a good candidate, but in the end I went with the CSS SDX-10. It was the most ideal driver at meeting all of my requirements. It will also function very well sealed or vented, so it can accommodate different tastes that way too. I didn't feel an 8" driver was enough to really meet my goals in the bass; I usually don't care much for 8" three-ways. I considered a 12" driver, and found some that would work, but for the most part the SDX-10 met my goals better, and it can go deep and move quite a bit of air to make up for the size.

My DSP plate amp arrived today. Now I just need to read up and figure out how to program it.

Jeff

[woodsart]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

I guess I can share the driver. For a passive application I need to meet a specific sensitivity, I needed it to work in a predetermined enclosure, and I wanted it to be able to reach into the 20's to make it worthwhile. Since the drivers in the Kairos are pretty advanced I didn't want to just use an inexpensive standard motor woofer, but I didn't need to break the bank either. For example, I considered the new Morel Supreme subwoofer drivers, which use the same motor that's in Magico speakers, but I decided those were a bit costly to sell well. I also considered the SB29NRX, which was a good candidate, but in the end I went with the CSS SDX-10. It was the most ideal driver at meeting all of my requirements. It will also function very well sealed or vented, so it can accommodate different tastes that way too. I didn't feel an 8" driver was enough to really meet my goals in the bass; I usually don't care much for 8" three-ways. I considered a 12" driver, and found some that would work, but for the most part the SDX-10 met my goals better, and it can go deep and move quite a bit of air to make up for the size.

My DSP plate amp arrived today. Now I just need to read up and figure out how to program it.

Jeff

Hi Jeff, how do the DSP plate amps run....money wise?

Thanks!

[Jeff B.]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Hi Jeff, how do the DSP plate amps run....money wise?

Thanks!

I really don't know for sure. I will have to check with Meniscus. They sent me a Mini DSP PWR-ICE250 to work with. It is small enough to fit on a stand mounted monitor but is two channel - 250W /channel, or 500 Watts for a single channel. The manufacturer lists it at $375. There is a smaller model too.

[stook1]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Hi Jeff, I have been thinking about your comments earlier in the thread for a couple of days and referring back to some other related threads.

With this new bass module, or even a stand-alone sub, is the midbass less recessed with the Continuum? I think you've talked elsewhere about how the Kairos is a more full sound relative to the Continuum, or the Continuum is a bit more mid-forward, if you will.

Any chance you can comment about a center channel friendly arrangement. Should I expect funky lobing if I were to side mount any of these designs?


Lastly, with the CSS bass module that you are designing... Will this be front firing given the crossover point?

thanks!

[Jeff B.]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Hi Jeff, I have been thinking about your comments earlier in the thread for a couple of days and referring back to some other related threads.

With this new bass module, or even a stand-alone sub, is the midbass less recessed with the Continuum? I think you've talked elsewhere about how the Kairos is a more full sound relative to the Continuum, or the Continuum is a bit more mid-forward, if you will.

Any chance you can comment about a center channel friendly arrangement. Should I expect funky lobing if I were to side mount any of these designs?


Lastly, with the CSS bass module that you are designing... Will this be front firing given the crossover point?

thanks!

The midbass isn't really recessed on the Continuum, it just isn't quite a warm as the Kairos. With a subwoofer dialed in properly it is hard for me to pick which I prefer. I really like them both. They sound a little different, the lower mids are slightly more prominent from the Kairos, but after you listen for a few minutes to either and your brain adjust to what you are hearing they both sound wonderful to me. Both are really pretty flat in their overall response.

I have designed an MTM for both the Continuum and the Adelphos, they could both be arranged for a decent center channel, but of the two, The Continuum would have less issues off-axis due to being able to group the drivers a bit tighter together. I really doubt either would give you much of an issue though.

On the bass module the woofer will be side-mounted. The has been the plan from the beginning.

[sorue]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Jeff, will the adelphos mtm be able to work well with this bass module? Passive application

[Jeff B.]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Jeff, will the adelphos mtm be able to work well with this bass module? Passive application

The sensitivity won't match well, but it would still give more deep bass performance. I can't say how it will do since I haven't made it yet, but I can test it when I do.

[woodsart]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

I really don't know for sure. I will have to check with Meniscus. They sent me a Mini DSP PWR-ICE250 to work with. It is small enough to fit on a stand mounted monitor but is two channel - 250W /channel, or 500 Watts for a single channel. The manufacturer lists it at $375. There is a smaller model too.

So, would one of these drive both bass modules if you choose to use it?

Thanks, Robert

[djkest]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

250 watts will be more than enough for that CSS subduction subwoofer. It looks to be an excellent choice and will play both loud and deep. It sounds like that amp would power the pair.

200hz crossover point- should maintain all the midrange and some of the midbass character of the TM while dramatically increasing the power handling. The midwoofer will be thermally limited instead of excursion limited. The Satori could probably handle 150-200 watts which would put it in the 108 dB range- if power compression is not an issue. Also instead of rolling off at 50 Hz the CSS woofer rolls off about 25 Hz so really it covers the bottom octave much deeper and louder.

[FrancoB]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

What crossover point did you feel would be more appropriate?

Oh no. I had nothing in mind. Just trying to learn from you.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

So, would one of these drive both bass modules if you choose to use it?

Thanks, Robert

The original plan was to drive both the monitor and the bass module with an active filter and DSP between them. In this case you would need two -one in each module. However, I think it could be set up to drive stereo bass modules. I'll know more when I study the manual.

[stook1]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Are Erich and you contemplating a kit offering for the bass module with cabinets that would match the gorgeous Continuum cabinets? I realize you are early on in the design phase but was just curious about that.

Also, I am going to send you a quick PM about the Kairos on a topic that might not be kosher for the forums. thanks again.
!

[woodsart]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

The original plan was to drive both the monitor and the bass module with an active filter and DSP between them. In this case you would need two -one in each module. However, I think it could be set up to drive stereo bass modules. I'll know more when I study the manual.

Thanks, Jeff. So, correct me if I am wrong, the two 10" drivers, 2 amps, materials and crossovers...looks like we are looking over 1K for 2 modules by proceeding with the original plan!

I realize I am jumping the gun a bit here and you need time to complete other projects before jumping into this new one.

Appreciate your work,

Robert

[djkest]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Well, that is if you go the active route. And with active you don't need crossover components because the amps have DSP built-in.

The passive route will be $170 x 2 for the subwoofers, and then some crossover components ($$$). This will likely be cheaper, but won't have as great of volume/output potential.

Also once he gets the crossover finalized, there may be a cheaper way to do this same thing. Using a 4-channel mini DSP and a 2-channel amp such as the Crown XLS-1000 to power both (bass) sides. There is more than one way to skin a cat, since most people already have a 2-channel amp.

This: http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...ox/minidsp-2x4
Plus this for power: http://www.parts-express.com/crown-x...-ohms--245-500

OR, just get this amplifier and it will do everything once you program the DSP:

http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-inuke-nu4-6000-6000-watt-four-channel-power-amplifier--248-6800

The iNukes are pretty good amps although you'd probably want to change out the fan for something quieter.

But it's Jeff's design. Since he doesn't make a profit on publishing these designs he'd probably be happy with whatever works.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Continuum vs. Kairos vs. Adelphos vs. Solstice

Thanks, Jeff. So, correct me if I am wrong, the two 10" drivers, 2 amps, materials and crossovers...looks like we are looking over 1K for 2 modules by proceeding with the original plan!

I realize I am jumping the gun a bit here and you need time to complete other projects before jumping into this new one.

Appreciate your work,

Robert

Remember Robert, the main focus here is to create a true three-way loudspeaker with passive filters that could even be built into one small tower enclosure if someone wants. This system would be driven by your current amplifier, so the additional costs will not be that high, just woofers crossover parts, and material. The DSP amplifier design is just something Meniscus asked me to do for people who want to go in this direction.