Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

[arrayed]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

What are you using for absorption material? This looks like internal cabinet reflections: [ATTACH=CONFIG]55791[/ATTACH]

Thanks... yes could be internal reflections. I have tried dacron, tons of polyfill (16 oz in each one), foam mattress padding (egg crate foam mattress topper from walmart)... on every surface...

wow that set up a few posts looks beautiful. beautiful wood and overall look. niiiiice.

[ecj]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

What are you using for absorption material? This looks like internal cabinet reflections:

[Psycoacoustics]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

Thanks guys. So on stands it is a lot better. These speakers sound BIG. I still measure and hear bumps at 200 350 and 750 hz. Voices sound a little harsh. I wonder if I needed to rebate the area around the woofer hole so that they can breathe better. Would that cause problems in the ranges where I am still having issues?

These speakers don't just sound like they need a bigger room- they sound like there is a problem still. But they sound a lot better and I see now that this is a great kit with a lot of potential. You can turn em up pretty loud and they take it and sound really good, besides the issues I am still working out.

There isn't much rebate behind the woofer holes. just a little bit of rebate.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]55787[/ATTACH]

Hi Arrayed, I'd have to look for my pic of the back of the baffle to show you but, I just did a 45 degree bevel similar to what I did on the outside to help the woofer breath. You can see by the pic that I did include how they are set up in my room and I gotta say,,,, I have no problem with the way they sound. No, wait,,, I really ENJOY them! From where I sit,,,,, Jeff IS A CROSSOVER GOD!

Hope ya get yours worked out. Mark

[arrayed]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

Thanks guys. So on stands it is a lot better. These speakers sound BIG. I still measure and hear bumps at 200 350 and 750 hz. Voices sound a little harsh. I wonder if I needed to rebate the area around the woofer hole so that they can breathe better. Would that cause problems in the ranges where I am still having issues?

These speakers don't just sound like they need a bigger room- they sound like there is a problem still. But they sound a lot better and I see now that this is a great kit with a lot of potential. You can turn em up pretty loud and they take it and sound really good, besides the issues I am still working out.

There isn't much rebate behind the woofer holes. just a little bit of rebate.

[JRS]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

This is what happens when you take a speaker designed for stand mounting with baffle step compensation and place against boundaries of some kind (wall, desktop, etc.) When you do, you get the frequency response you showed and a bloated midrange.

Makes perfect sense. No doubt the OP was like on fire to hear how good it sounded but lacked pedestals of some sort. Oh well good to know its a story that lesson learned, will end well.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

This is what happens when you take a speaker designed for stand mounting with baffle step compensation and place against boundaries of some kind (wall, desktop, etc.) When you do, you get the frequency response you showed and a bloated midrange.

[arrayed]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

i was measuring it on a table 2 ft away. so I remeasured 6 ft away, with a sweep. speaker is on a stool, away from walls etc. much better response- still not great sounding (like the spftware equalizer got it) and sort of bloated etc, but much better graph---->

I know Jeff said these were made for stands. maybe even a table is just too much for these. If that is really the case, I will be forced to redo part of the crossover at the least. I much rather hope it was something I screwed up on with the box or crossover.

[JRS]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

thanks Mr Roemer- Box is supposed to be 897.75 cu inches. tune supposed to be a round vent 1-7/8"x5-5/8" long. that box size is not accounting for the round port volume. so actually a bit smaller inside.

I made my box 910 cu inches, not counting the port wall/volume. the port is a slot port at the base of the speaker. the port is 5/8" tall, 7" wide, and about 10" deep, but the back wall of the enclosure makes sort of extends the port to closer to 11. I was shooting for 40 ish hertz territory for the tune.

my actual internal dimensions, if you treat the top of my slot port as a wall, are 13 x 7 x 10. if you count the bottom of the speaker as the bottom wall, and not the port, then it would be abotu 14.5 x 7 x 10.

I messed with eq settings of foobar and these speakers are sounding really good with heavy eq. here is an example. [ATTACH=CONFIG]55768[/ATTACH]

Well thats the best news==this is fixable!

[JRS]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

That does look better. No real insight here as its obvious that there is a 10+dB mismatch between woofers and tweeters. I would like to know how the msmts were made originally that you showed. Its almost as if there is backwards baffle step compensation. No idea why that would be so without the XO. I'm new here but I have seen kit XO's pictured or sketched leaving out exact values side by side with the elements and point to point wiring. Anybody else have a better idea? Obviously there is a level mismatch that I don't see as being an alignment issue or leak. Thoughts?

BTW: how are the msmts being taken--well away from room surfaces with mic 1 -2 meters out a gated MLSSA or swept sign input.

[arrayed]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

thanks Mr Roemer- Box is supposed to be 897.75 cu inches. tune supposed to be a round vent 1-7/8"x5-5/8" long. that box size is not accounting for the round port volume. so actually a bit smaller inside.

I made my box 910 cu inches, not counting the port wall/volume. the port is a slot port at the base of the speaker. the port is 5/8" tall, 7" wide, and about 10" deep, but the back wall of the enclosure makes sort of extends the port to closer to 11. I was shooting for 40 ish hertz territory for the tune.

my actual internal dimensions, if you treat the top of my slot port as a wall, are 13 x 7 x 10. if you count the bottom of the speaker as the bottom wall, and not the port, then it would be abotu 14.5 x 7 x 10.

I messed with eq settings of foobar and these speakers are sounding really good with heavy eq. here is an example.

[Chris Roemer]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

Tell us more about the box. Looks like you've got 0.57cf tuned to 44Hz.
I can't find the recommended box specs anywhere.

[arrayed]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

ok! got ARTA for everyone. alright...

the two lines are measurements of right and left speaker.

and yes i agree with the comment about cavity resonance.

edit: yes woofer sealed with gasket tape

[JRS]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

Its hard to describe, but it let me just say these speakers shouldn't be capable of making the whole thing buzz. the box is 3/4 mdf, solidly built, braced front to back and side to side.

It sounds ok out of the box, but as i hold the driver over the opening of the box, it starts sounding chesty and boomy, and really bad. I set the driver into the whole, sealed, and its just bad sounding. sounds like a speaker alright, but a super cheap, just bad sound. Must have a problem with the crossover. Stuffing definitely helps though... the kit just came w a dacron sheet. I have needed so much more, it must be a crossover thing.


downloading arta now, trying to get a measurement. thanks for the help guys

I tend to agree which is why I suggested running wires straight from amp to terminals to see if the excitation persists. But ARTA is fine. WE can then see what you're hearing. And by the way I think what you're hearing as the woofer gets close to the box is the cavity resonance. In my limited experience sometimes telegraghs how the driver will sound in the box. But that may be naive.

[Jay1]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

Do you have some kind of gasket between the driver frame and the box?

[arrayed]

Re: Built the Caritas speakers, ran into problem. sounds... bad.

If the whole box is vibrating, you have a problem. Add a LOT more bracing and add some mass damping to the walls. A well designed enclosure should be very "quiet" when the woofers are cranking. If the box is vibrating it is acting like another driver and creating peaks and valleys in the response.

A great speaker not only has a good crossover and drivers, but a very solid and inert enclosure.

Its hard to describe, but it let me just say these speakers shouldn't be capable of making the whole thing buzz. the box is 3/4 mdf, solidly built, braced front to back and side to side.

It sounds ok out of the box, but as i hold the driver over the opening of the box, it starts sounding chesty and boomy, and really bad. I set the driver into the whole, sealed, and its just bad sounding. sounds like a speaker alright, but a super cheap, just bad sound. Must have a problem with the crossover. Stuffing definitely helps though... the kit just came w a dacron sheet. I have needed so much more, it must be a crossover thing.


downloading arta now, trying to get a measurement. thanks for the help guys