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I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

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  • #16
    Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    As well as the plot below the system sim that I've attached above.

    Later,
    Wolf
    You've attached a LOT of things above. Which one is the "system sim." I apologize if I seem completely dense but it's like you're speaking a different language. :o
    People hear with their eyes.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

      The System Sim is the first after 'On to the Preliminary Xover....' that has 3 panes/windows in it, followed by the next attachment- the reverse null. That DEEP trough is the reverse null.

      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

        If you ever make a smaller version you should call it "Forum-mini-for-ya".

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

          Well- I guess the alignment changed the overall response profile, and made the tilt in the LP too much. I also measured the tweeters, and the impedance was considerably different. This made a change for a higher xover point. I will say, listening to the ND25, I prefer it above 4k, as that is where it noticeably cleans up, but it's not imperative to be xover'd that high.

          So- tweeter Z's, Sim2, and sectors....







          The reverse null is not as deep either, but the phase is still as before. Fewer turns of copper on the LP coil is a plus for size reasons.
          I will try both the 1.2mH and the 0.9mH and see how the balance is between them.

          Looks like I have to see if I have some stock 0.9's, as I think I might....
          Later,
          Wolf
          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

          *InDIYana event website*

          Photobucket pages:
          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

            Went to Matt's, and the PRV's drop right into the Minimus7 cabs. No mods required. The ND25FA-4 I'm using is a touch big for the Minimus7 sized baffles I'm using to keep the design as true to the original I can. I am using 1/4" paneling for the top/btm/sides, and 1/2" for the rear and 3/4" for the baffles; so the depth will be different on mine, but all else the same as a Minimus7. The tweeter will have to be shaved a touch on the circumference in one spot to allow the woofer to set down into the recess/hole in my case. If you use the ND25FN-4 (faceless) instead, and use the radius on the edge of the installation hole, the FR should match the FA-4 and not be an issue for either wood boxes as I'm doing or for the original aluminum cabs.

            Also of note- I was going to use some 0.1mH chokes from Radio Shack as the coil across the woofer in the LC shunt, but I found out they were ferrite-rod cores, and the value changed to 0.01mH (measured) when in close proximity (read: attracted magnetically) to the PRV's magnet structure. I will have to use an air-core coil for this spot, and keep the main LP coil FAR away from the woofer if at all possible.

            When building speakers this small, Neodymium or shielded magnets can help avoid issues with interaction of xover components. If you are using the aluminum Minimus7 cabs, also be sure your coils measure the same once they are installed inside. Aluminum can actually lessen the inductor's value if in too close of a proximity.

            As to where I'm placing the xover...
            I'll attach the parallel resistor to the tweeter. All else will likely be on a removable panel in the upper back This will also retain the components to within the 1/2" rear wall, and hopefully retain more internal volume than expected.

            Hole sizes:
            The ND25 installs perfectly into a 1.75" hole, and has a 5/32" recess depth. I drilled the hole with a 1.75" Forstner bit, sanded lightly woth 80g so it is not so tight, and used a 3/8" rabbet bit with my next size smaller guide bearing. This would have given me a 2 11/16" rebate diameter, but that's a smidge large. I wrapped the inside of the through-hole with masking tape before I routed to take up the slack, and came out pretty close. The diameter is pretty much a solid 2 21/32".

            The PRV will drop into a basic 4" exact hole. Any larger and it will not seal properly. Like most/many stamped-frame 4" pin-cushion drivers, there is a small 'ledge' where the surround is glued into the frame, and that makes the step in the frame meet the 4" diameter spec. The Minimus7 cabs have a layer of sealing felt on the baffles, and the driver seals quite well this way. I drilled a through-hole of 3" with the drill press and a hole saw, and hit the front side hole with a 1/2" roundover bit. The roundover bit was used beading-style, so the edge had a lip on it very similar to that of the driver. I will soon route away a majority of the 3" - 4" region that was left after these 2 steps, so that the driver will drop in and retain the lip I made for it.
            WAIT........
            BEFORE I DO THAT- I have to glue the side panels onto the baffles and backs, and then route. This is because there will only be about 1/8" of material left around the mounting hole without the sides attached. This makes the perimeter strength a lot better, and won't jeopardize the integrity of the baffle. If someone builds these out of wood-style materials, I would advise increasing the baffle dimensions a half inch per, so you won't have these issues. I'm doing it this way to keep the dimensional integrity of the Minimus7 cabs for viability, and I totally understand why the manufacturers went with an aluminum cabinet for these reasons alone.

            I'll post more pictures as time allows, and to illustrate what's been said here.
            Later,
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #21
              I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

              Wolf, would you mind helping me with this project for my physics class. I would like to learn more about designing crossover, it would be great if I can use this design as my learning reference. Thank you
              Last edited by datranz; 04-29-2015, 04:28 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                Originally posted by datranz View Post
                Wolf, would you mind helping me with this project for my physics class. I would like to learn more about designing crossover, it would be great if I can use this design as my learning reference. Thank you.
                Nicktran909(at)gmail(dot)com
                You might want to remove your e-mail addy to prevent spam, or space it out and use (at) and (dot) instead of the actual characters so spambots can't latch onto it.

                Beside that point- xover design takes a lot of research to understand. What is it you want to learn? We can start a new thread with the direction of many in terms of your project, with or without this design as the basis for discussion.

                Let the group of forum members help you out,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                  Cool project Wolf, nice crossover work as always!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                    For those interested, here attached is the measured T/S of the RS 40-1030, and it's now very clear why the bass is decent in the Min7 cabs from them....
                    I'm keeping these off of the Bucket to prevent confusion. The Xmax is 3mm, and 94dB is tickling the 2mm spot all the way down. Vas is TINY!!!

                    The sim with the PRV is not far from this one, so it should be pretty close.

                    Later,
                    Wolf
                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by Wolf; 04-30-2015, 03:39 AM. Reason: added box sim for RS
                    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                    *InDIYana event website*

                    Photobucket pages:
                    https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                      Time for some photos...

                      They drop into the Min7 cabs:


                      Drivers:



                      Size compare and early assembly:



                      She fits after I cut away the remainder! I used a flush trim bit with the collar bearing from a pattern bit, and the flush radius is slightly less than that of the pattern bearing. This leaves the lip for the 4" to set against and seal easily. I also had to dremel the tweeter a smidge to allow the midbass to sit properly in that ridge. Outer hole is a true 4".



                      Oh- you see that spot on the left of the hole in the 2nd pic above? Yeah- I'll explain that....
                      You see- smaller cabs don't have the potential energy of larger cabs, and therefore move easier. I had the shop vac hose in the tweeter hole to extract the dust when I was using this BIG UGLY BIT to relieve the inside of the hole. This is a 1/4" shank, with a 1/2" roundunder from MLCS, and it's NLA from the on-line website anyway.

                      But I digress....
                      When I was finished and shutoff the router, and proceeded to lift it, the cab shifted due to the weight of the hose, and that still spinning bit made a nice large gouge in the recess of the woofer. I won't do that on the second one!


                      Luckily, the woofer all but covers the issue created. I should be able to add a bit of foamie or sealant and keep the integrity of the cabinet. All is not lost. The 1/4" holes you see are for dowels to be glued in and increase the integrity of all of the joints against the baffle/back. They will be flush trimmed once the glue has set.


                      And the final 2-way fitment...


                      Next step is to do the same to the other cab, and then cut for xover/terminal plate for the rear.
                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                        Hey Ben, I'm enjoying your thread. Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.
                        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                          Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                          Hey Ben, I'm enjoying your thread. Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out.
                          I'm going to try some Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty in the blemish, and reshape if possible.
                          Glad you're enjoying it.
                          Later,
                          Wolf
                          "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                          "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                          "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                          "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                          *InDIYana event website*

                          Photobucket pages:
                          https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                          My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                            I'm going to try some Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty in the blemish, and reshape if possible.
                            Glad you're enjoying it.
                            Later,
                            Wolf
                            If you want a great, super strong putty that dries into something like glass: 8 parts Durham's, 3 parts Titebond, 2-3 parts water. Great adhesion, super-strong.
                            Audio: Media PC -> Sabre ESS 9023 DAC -> Behringer EP2500 -> (insert speakers of the moment)
                            Sites: Jupiter Audioworks - Flicker Stream - Proud Member of Midwest Audio Club

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                              Originally posted by JasonP View Post
                              If you want a great, super strong putty that dries into something like glass: 8 parts Durham's, 3 parts Titebond, 2-3 parts water. Great adhesion, super-strong.
                              Thanks! I'll give that a whirl....
                              Wolf
                              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                              *InDIYana event website*

                              Photobucket pages:
                              https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: I theorize: 'Synchaeta'....a Minimus 7 revamp...

                                Seemed to do what I wanted.

                                2nd cab is glued up, one xover assembled, and hope to finish within the next week.
                                Later,
                                Wolf
                                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                                *InDIYana event website*

                                Photobucket pages:
                                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                                Comment

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