Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Whats tooo much amp

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Whats tooo much amp

    I'm in the early stages of building 2, 5cuft curved subwoofer enclosures for the Dayton Ultimax 18's. Its for a HT build so 4cuft Net sealed enclosure is about the smallest I can go.

    I had originally planned on using the Ultimax 15's together with an iNuke 3000dsp. But now that I went and ordered the 18's I'm wondering if I'm going to need the iNuke 6000dsp instead.

    On paper the 6000's look like far too much amp for 2 18's and I'm unlikely to build more than 2 subs.

  • #2
    Re: Whats tooo much amp

    Power is a strange animal. Want twice as loud? Open your pocketbook, it's 10x the power. Put another way, you'll spend the vast majority of the time at far less than the amp's rated power.

    However, it's what happens in that small fraction of the time you'll need rated power that matters. For a realistic assessment of that, see Data-Bass review of the UM18.
    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=58
    http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=116

    A max long term output sustained at 90V is something like 2000W into 4 Ohms. You'll want some headroom...

    Frank

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Whats tooo much amp

      Originally posted by fbov View Post
      Power is a strange animal. Want twice as loud? Open your pocketbook, it's 10x the power. Put another way, you'll spend the vast majority of the time at far less than the amp's rated power.

      However, it's what happens in that small fraction of the time you'll need rated power that matters. For a realistic assessment of that, see Data-Bass review of the UM18.
      http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=58
      http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=116

      A max long term output sustained at 90V is something like 2000W into 4 Ohms. You'll want some headroom...

      Frank
      there is no such thing as to much clean power.
      craigk

      " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Whats tooo much amp

        Originally posted by craigk View Post
        there is no such thing as to much clean power.
        What he said.
        R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
        Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

        95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
        "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Whats tooo much amp

          What he said.
          Used within reason, yes. If you match a massive amp with the wrong speakers and actually use all that power, then things could go wrong.

          I use a Crown amp with my main speakers and I've never gone past the first signal light using it. I'm sure I could actually break the speakers before the amp clipped if I tried.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Whats tooo much amp

            Originally posted by lesliew View Post
            ...On paper the 6000's look like far too much amp for 2 18's and I'm unlikely to build more than 2 subs.
            Think in terms of db gain rather than wattage.
            "Not a Speaker Designer - Not even on the Internet"
            “Pride is your greatest enemy, humility is your greatest friend.”
            "If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Whats tooo much amp

              Are these wattage specs even accurate? I thought they overinflated their specifications?
              "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche

              http://www.diy-ny.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Whats tooo much amp

                There's no such thing as too much power. I'll have somewhere in the neighborhood of a very legitimate 400 watts/channel going to the woofers in the 3 ways I'm working on right now, and those are rated at 200 watts (and actually more going to the mids). I've been driving my ER18s with an estimated (at 4 ohms) 500 watts/channel for a long time now, and I haven't been conservative with the volume (at all). I've driven the little Dayton ND91 rated at 30 watts pretty hard using my Adcom 5500, which is 350 watts/channel at 4 ohms.

                Underpowering a speaker will kill it a LOT faster than overpowering it will. The main thing is to listen to the limits of your drivers, if it's distorting pull the volume down. But, you won't be anywhere near overpowering those 18s with that 6000, and yes, that's a better option for those subs than the 3000 would be IMHO. That opinion is simply based on "more power is better" . And since it's a sub, I'm sure somewhere in the system you can attenuate the volume of the sub right?

                That said... I'll believe the "3000 watt/ch" rating on that 6000 about the same time I win a gold medal in women's gymnastics ;)
                "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Whats tooo much amp

                  What he said.
                  What he said, he...said....

                  ?

                  I agree with Craig...for subwoofer use moar is better. As long as it's clean and you use it within reason. Hear distortion? Turn it down.
                  DIYRM-A Thread, a 60 page speaker design guide
                  Tumblr
                  Direct link to DIYRM-A/B Updated PDF

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Whats tooo much amp

                    Too much power is when the gain is so high you hear hiss.
                    --
                    "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Whats tooo much amp

                      Originally posted by Face View Post
                      Are these wattage specs even accurate? I thought they overinflated their specifications?
                      I'm not sure of the 6000 but I can verify that the 3000 will do 1000w/ch @ 2ohm.
                      https://www.facebook.com/Mosaic-Audi...7373763888294/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Whats tooo much amp

                        Originally posted by lesliew View Post
                        I'm in the early stages of building 2, 5cuft curved subwoofer enclosures for the Dayton Ultimax 18's. Its for a HT build so 4cuft Net sealed enclosure is about the smallest I can go.

                        I had originally planned on using the Ultimax 15's together with an iNuke 3000dsp. But now that I went and ordered the 18's I'm wondering if I'm going to need the iNuke 6000dsp instead.

                        On paper the 6000's look like far too much amp for 2 18's and I'm unlikely to build more than 2 subs.
                        Subwoofers are all about providing sufficient levels of clean sound, usually extending to 20Hz or below, in a particular listening environment. There are many ways of doing it, and some are more cost-effective than others. Using more subwoofers generally yields a smoother frequency response and eases the burden on both the drivers and amplifiers. Choosing sensitive drivers decreases power requirements and each 3dB more halves the required power. Four Acoustic Elegance SBP-15 8 ohm drivers in sealed 6.5 cubic foot enclosures driven by a Class D Audio SDS-258 stereo amplifier (two subwoofers paralleled per stereo channel) produce 118dB peaks at 20Hz with low distortion in my very large listening room. The power required is only 300 watts per subwoofer! Could it be done with a single subwoofer? Probably, but a very large and/or high excursion driver and far more power would be required and it would be unlikely to sound as good.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Whats tooo much amp

                          Originally posted by Pallas View Post
                          Too much power is when the gain is so high you hear hiss.
                          That's not indicative of too much power. That hiss is simply the noise floor being amplified to an audible level. In a bad amplifier design, that can happen at less than 1w output.

                          The time you have too much power is when your speaker simply cannot provide any additional output, but your amp is capable of providing more. Some people keep turning up the amp in search of more output and end up blowing their speakers.

                          However, if you're listening at reasonable volume levels and not trying to provide full range sound to an outdoor stadium with only one speaker, then the setup you mention should be just fine.
                          DARPA Jr - 2015 InDIYana Winner - RS180-8 + RS100P-8 + ND25FA
                          The Aria's - RS150-4 (or RS150-8) + XT25SC90
                          The Mariposa's - TEBM65C20F-8 + ND16FA
                          The Canzonetta's - RS100P-8 and ND16FA
                          AudioSource AMP-100 Mods OR Pyle PAMP1000 Mods

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Whats tooo much amp

                            Thanks guys really do appreciate your input. I'll go with the iNuke 6000DSP. Seems like you all agree that this is the better option.

                            I'm not power crazy, don't even listen at excessively high volumes but I do like a nice clean audio signal. I've had my 2, 10" subs for a long time so I felt it was time for an upgrade.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Whats tooo much amp

                              Originally posted by tyger23 View Post
                              That's not indicative of too much power. That hiss is simply the noise floor being amplified to an audible level. In a bad amplifier design, that can happen at less than 1w output.
                              In theory, you are correct.

                              In practice, to get more output out of a given input signal level, the amp's gain goes up. That means that the signal as well as every bit of noise upstream of the amp is raised more in amplitude. And because the input signal is by definition weaker for a given output on a higher-gain amp, and in most modern electronics the noise floor is relatively constant regardless of signal output, the noise is relatively greater.

                              So more power in the real world often leads to higher gain, which leads to noise problems.

                              (That said, another possible answer is "too much amp is when your preout cannot put out enough voltage to reach the amp's full power." Clipping preouts are no prettier sounding than clipping amps...)
                              --
                              "Based on my library and laboratory research, I have concluded, as have others, that the best measures of speaker quality are frequency response and dispersion pattern. I have not found any credible research showing that most of the differences we hear among loudspeakers cannot be explained by examining these two variables." -Alvin Foster, 22 BAS Speaker 2 (May, 1999)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X