Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

[Jeff B.]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Discussing Intellectual Property tends to do that to people.

I have always attempted to balance the "intellectual property question". There have been some designs that I have openly posted and answered everyone's questions on, and there have been others that I have made an effort to keep out of the public domain.

When that is the case, there is usually a commercial interest somewhere, and it's not always mine. Like with the kits Mensicus or DIYsoundgroup has asked me to do for them, I don't think it's right for me publish certain details that would allow someone to copy it without going through them.

On the other hand, most of the kits at Meniscus that they were interested in carrying you can usually find the crossover details posted somewhere. I think those are a win-win for the them and the consumer though. If a builder orders that full kit, even though the details may be out there, they will receive drivers, crossover parts, connectors, plans, wiring, damping material, boards and layouts for the crossover, screws, gaskets material, etc. All nicely packed up in one package, and at a discount. This is a whole lot easier than working up your own list of everything and ordering. This convenience if really worth something here.

I recently built a pair of Continuums for someone and I ordered the full kit from Meniscus just because I didn't want to take the time to figure up everything I would need. I was amazed at how wonderfully complete it was and how much easier that made the situation.

I guess my point is this - if you have a design you want to keep confidential for whatever reason then that is up to you to decide, and if you have a design that you want to share with the world, that's OK too. I have both kinds. But I try to make my own decisions regarding intellectual property.

[dustinbagby]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

I know I said I am done, but I was curious - say a designer wants a couple 15" Ultimax subs for his setup. What is stopping the designer from throwing one in a cabinet with some cheap tweeter and trying to pass it off as a design for his own personal benefit? I know it seems shady, unethical, and unlikey, but you cant discount it entirely. I know it's also an extreme example, but there will have to be some sort of guidelines put in place.

[kbzx35]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

At the very least I'm sure he'll be exposed pretty quickly on the forum for doing it and call it a hunch will be heavily critiqued and picked apart. But the question is why can't he work it out with PE to make 15" ultimax subs being subs as a project in the first place? PE did say there will be a variety of potential projects. Not just 2 or 3 way speakers.

I know I said I am done, but I was curious - say a designer wants a couple 15" Ultimax subs for his setup. What is stopping the designer from throwing one in a cabinet with some cheap tweeter and trying to pass it off as a design for his own personal benefit? I know it seems shady, unethical, and unlikey, but you cant discount it entirely. I know it's also an extreme example, but there will have to be some sort of guidelines put in place.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

I know I said I am done, but I was curious - say a designer wants a couple 15" Ultimax subs for his setup. What is stopping the designer from throwing one in a cabinet with some cheap tweeter and trying to pass it off as a design for his own personal benefit? I know it seems shady, unethical, and unlikey, but you cant discount it entirely. I know it's also an extreme example, but there will have to be some sort of guidelines put in place.

Why wouldn't the designer just make the subwoofer his project? Nothing says that's off -limits. You're overthinking this.

[dustinbagby]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Why wouldn't the designer just make the subwoofer his project? Nothing says that's off -limits. You're overthinking this.

Overlooked, not overthought

[Psycoacoustics]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Deliberately ******* someone off generally isnt my MO, but youre making it fun.

NavyGuy, I am sending you a PM.

As for this post, Im over it. I obviously dont know what Im talking about.

Thanks but no thanks, PE.

I wish I was that young again! Hey Dustin,,,, ever head the phrase? "Paying it FORWARD"?

I think PE is doing a good thing. I wish,,, as someone else said, I had the "Chops" to apply.

Later, Mark

[Jeff B.]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Overlooked, not overthought

Should I accuse you of underthinking it? :D

[rpb]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Since my question got buried 3 pages ago, I'll repost it.




Let me make sure I understand. Lets say I want to build a design using a pair of Peerless 6.5" HDS woofers, and a Pair of Morel tweeters in a prefinished .75 cu-ft box, to make a 2-way. Does the stipend pay for 100% of the driver and cabinet costs? No money out of my pocket? If the design doesn't seem to work well in the early stages, can the woofers or tweeters be returned for different ones? In short, can I build speakers with PE picking up the tab? Do I get to keep any of the items? Do I ship the finished speakers to PE for evaluation

[donprice]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Now to really knock the train off the tracks....

Some consideration should be given to the option of "reimbursement" on completed projects (or projects nearing completion). It may be easier for many designers to look back and submit something recently completed than to commit to a new design with a deadline (now matter how flexible). This would seem to me to be a way to tap into the extensive body of work that is already out there. The goal would be to get quality designs that aren't widely known and (obviously) not already for sale elsewhere. Obsolete drivers would be another no no.

Ideally this would prompt some designers to rework a design that needed a little more tweaking or to document the undocumented designs. Share a design and get parts for the next build...

[DanHine]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

say a designer wants a couple 15" Ultimax subs for his setup. What is stopping the designer from throwing one in a cabinet with some cheap tweeter and trying to pass it off as a design for his own personal benefit?

I would guess the PE employees who are working with/tracking how those stipeds are being spent would stop them. What, do you think PE is just going to blindly send every single products someone requests without any questions being asked?

Seems to me like this is a situation where:

* Someone applies
* Application is accepted or rejected
* If accepted, details are worked out.

You know, like the rest of life.

I don't think this thread topic was created in order to answer every question - many of which seem to be asked by people with zero interest.

[Jeff B.]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Since my question got buried 3 pages ago, I'll repost it.




Let me make sure I understand. Lets say I want to build a design using a pair of Peerless 6.5" HDS woofers, and a Pair of Morel tweeters in a prefinished .75 cu-ft box, to make a 2-way. Does the stipend pay for 100% of the driver and cabinet costs? No money out of my pocket? If the design doesn't seem to work well in the early stages, can the woofers or tweeters be returned for different ones? In short, can I build speakers with PE picking up the tab? Do I get to keep any of the items? Do I ship the finished speakers to PE for evaluation

As I understand from the things Ginger posted, you would receive a fixed amount stipend to use in whatever way you want. But if it is a really expensive project then it probably doesn't cover everything with no money out of your pocket. I don't think they're picking up the tab altogether, they're contributing to the cost. They may send you samples to try though. When you complete the project it is yours to keep. It's probably up to you to do the write-up though, so you should probably consider this as part of the project. She can correct me if I misinterpreted anything.

[kenny_k]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Hope PE dosen't withdraw the offer.

[Erich H]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

As I stated in my last post, if you design a speaker, PE loves it and sells it as a kit, and they do in fact own the right to the design since you've agreed to be compensated with a one time cost of parts, then you lose. I am not going to give someone else the rights to make money off of my work and not pay me a royalty on it.

The couple flat pack speaker kits that I've helped with on PE had a little extra going to the designer as a royalty. It was an idea discussed with PE a couple years ago and they thought it sounded great and it's worked well so far.

As mentioned in my last post, I've talked to a lot of the well know designers and to PE about offering more kits here on the Parts Express site that are currently or soon coming to DIY Sound Group. I believe this will be starting pretty soon, and it will be done like the other two kits.


It seems like the idea Ginger is talking about here is geared more towards the Project Gallery right now.


My .02 cents would be to set up the Project Gallery to allow for reviews on a new speaker design. If the speaker makes the cut it could be turned into a full kit that would then have a small royalty added in for the designer. Offer the kit with just a front CNC cut baffle, and/or with a full flat pack. Win win for everyone and gives a incentive to push out a great design.


Personally, I don't think there should only be 10 designers chosen for a 'team'. When do they drop off the team, will there be new people joining, will Team Member #4 have to be booted and replaced with someone else because they're designs aren't popular? Lots to track per month per team member for years to come. Instead, what about opening it up for more participants. Make the incentive be a kit royalty if they make a kit worthy speaker. Maybe the designer can buy the components for their idea and then get reimbursed if/when it goes to the Project Gallery. From there it can gain popularity and turned into a royalty making kit for the designer.

[andy19191]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Well I think the Mods should delete most of these posts and clean up this thread as the intention of the thread is to invite people to sign up for the challenge and not to receive critique on the idea, how to handle intellectual property rights, or question the ethics of business practice.

Who signs up for something without understanding what is involved? How the IPR is to be handled has not been made clear and, for those of us that have had issues with IPR in the past, it is quite reasonable to ask for it to be made clear. I don't expect it to be a significant issue but at the moment it is an unknown like a number of other factors. Perhaps it will only become clear when people are invited to join. Perhaps it won't be made public.

A few days ago someone posted about major issues with the manufacture of a custom speaker. The arrangement between the two parties had not been made clear by writing it down. Problems cropped up and expectations were different on both sides. Things soured...

[martyh]

Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

Hope PE dosen't withdraw the offer.

I'm guessing that PE will simply accept the applications as they come in now, choose the designers they want to work with (and possibly use this thread as a selection filter!), then move on with the program.

IMHO this is a terrific idea and if selected I'll be proud to be on the team.

Marty

BTW, has anybody noticed the big changes in the Speaker Project Gallery?