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  • #61
    Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

    Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
    That comment was directed towards the member who wishes this to include a competition-style aspect. I did not read anything into your commentary indicating a competitive aspect - which is my personal preference. I believe competition in DIY ultimately stifles innovation.
    Oh I agree - when things become competitive, others are hesitant to participate and it just really dampens the entire hobby. There will be no screaming Hell's Kitchen people in this.
    Ecommerce at Parts Express

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    • #62
      Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

      Originally posted by Thump View Post
      I'd guess that sentiment is prevalent. From the people I've read around here who actually seem qualified to do something like this - time and mental energy has got to be a (or the) massive barrier.

      Them having quick bursts of time to whip up rough drafts of circuits, box data and the like is one thing. Doing (and implementing) complete, high quality designs anyone (starting with the one doing it) would actually want to have in their house and listen to is another matter.

      Still an awesome concept and potential. If there's enough around able to do it there are plenty more who would take advantage of the results, especially in kit form.

      Ginger seems to be working hard to clarify the details and scope.

      At this point if it moves forward I can imagine:
      - The designers doing the grunt work to come up with as complete a model as possible.
      - Posting as much detail as possible.
      - Experts roaming the boards not directly participating on the "team" taking a few minutes here and there helping refine the models.
      - Team or member incorporates those adjustments.
      - Prototype a real implementation and listen to it.
      - Yes / No the result.

      A lot of the above mirrors what already happens around here constantly anyway.

      I don't know what software or CNC machines PE uses. I researched CNC options last year. Seems the typical CNC uses CAD software that needs DXF/DWG (AutoCAD). Those models need massaged quite a bit for it to be something usable. Just that part can be a huge time sink because every design is essentially a 1-off and that effort could be considered retooling. Obviously it only needs to happen once and then it can be loaded later as needed for established kits.

      Obviously (or I assume) PE would be allocating resources to that process. Just wanted to mention it since it's one (of many) aspects to consider with such a thing.
      In terms of resources, we are allocating the store credits, etc. It is up to the individual designers how they handle their project builds and software is not provided. I think in most cases, those who have applied thus far probably have a plan with how they work their designs and how they will approach the role. Perhaps someone who has applied may want to chime in, but I can't speak for how the individual designer's process will go.
      Ecommerce at Parts Express

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      • #63
        Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

        Originally posted by GingerRohlfs View Post
        I'm going to try to answer your questions as best as possible, as we definitely want to get everything out on the table for this entire Design Team concept.

        1) My understanding is that there will be some flexibility in the number of designs per year. Right now, the agreement has a guideline of every 90 days, but again our goal is to work with our team members and if we have someone who is working on an amazing project who needs more time, it's really just going to be a matter of communication. I would say the every 90 days is more of a guideline or loose suggestion. Guidelines are there just to protect Parts Express and the individual team member. Again, the guys I'm working with on this team project are very flexible and understand it can take a while to build a speaker project, so I say just make sure communication is consistent. That will speak more than just cranking out a project every 90 days that is not your best work, and only done to meet some sort of "deadline" which can be flexible. Hopefully that makes sense.

        2) Your work is yours. While on the team, those designs may not be submitted to a competitor without permission but then at the end of the team duration (one year), the finished projects are your property and you can do so as you wish with them.

        3) You will not have any 1099s or forms to complete. It's strictly store credit and not a cash paid position. The team members will not be employees but rather it's an agreement tied to store credit for projects and project work.

        Let me know if there is anything else I can clarify. I'm here to help!
        That (bold) part I have a problem with. Unless I am on commission for a project from whomever asked it of me, and the funds are not my own backing it, the work, design work, and project as a whole will remain my property. You say the work is ours, and after a year it fully and finally truly becomes ours. If I have any dollar amount of my own money spent on a project, then it's not on commission any longer. Again- I'm out.

        Later,
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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        • #64
          Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

          Originally posted by Wolf View Post
          I'm out,
          Wolf
          Originally posted by Wolf View Post
          Again- I'm out.

          Later,
          Wolf
          Yeah, got it. You are out. You said it twice.
          I have however submitted my application. I am sure the format is not set in stone and will be adjusted as needed.
          Later, Roman.
          http://www.diy-ny.com/

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          • #65
            Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

            Originally posted by Wolf View Post
            That (bold) part I have a problem with. Unless I am on commission for a project from whomever asked it of me, and the funds are not my own backing it, the work, design work, and project as a whole will remain my property. You say the work is ours, and after a year it fully and finally truly becomes ours. If I have any dollar amount of my own money spent on a project, then it's not on commission any longer. Again- I'm out.

            Later,
            Wolf
            I don't quite understand the logic. PE is providing support and should get something in return, that being control over the design and use of it for marketing and or a kit for some period. It makes sense for them and for the designer for the support he or she receives. I think some people are over thinking this. I wonder what the quid pro quo for the designers of the kits (which are even often proprietary) at "that other" speaker parts company is.

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            • #66
              Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

              Only here can I imagine people ruining a wet dream with their personal agenda. Here's to looking a gift horse in the mouth.

              I wish my crossover designing was up to task, I'd be all over this. 4 projects a year? No sweat. Hats off to PE for entertaining such an idea!

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              • #67
                Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                If it is acceptable for us to apply as a pair, and somebody wants to do the (boring to me) simulations and computer work, I'll bust out 4 nice projects this year.

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                • #68
                  Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                  Originally posted by fdieck View Post
                  I don't quite understand the logic. PE is providing support and should get something in return, that being control over the design and use of it for marketing and or a kit for some period. It makes sense for them and for the designer for the support he or she receives. I think some people are over thinking this. I wonder what the quid pro quo for the designers of the kits (which are even often proprietary) at "that other" speaker parts company is.
                  Which other speaker company are you referring to? If you're referring to Meniscus selling something like my Continuum, or Soprano, or Baby Boomer, I can tell you I paid for parts and did design and then authorized Meniscus to sell them as kits. I receive nothing in payment or royalties. Something like the Kairos they asked me to design and provided the drivers, but again I receive no pay or royalties. I'm fine with this arrangement, I do it as a friend. Is this what you were wondering about?
                  Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                  • #69
                    Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                    Yes Jeff you are on record about this before and I meant no disrespect. They guys at Meniscus and the Loudspeaker building community are lucky to have your tireless support. Maybe that is the relationship they have with most of the designers of their kits. You are much more prolific and generous than most. Why not some gratis designs with non proprietary crossovers for PE? There are others like Paul Carmody, Curt Campbell, and Jim Holtz also been very generous and productive. Maybe bragging rights are enough for people to do this gratis. It looks like PE have might something else in mind here. It will be interesting to see how this progresses.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                      Originally posted by fdieck View Post
                      Yes Jeff you are on record about this before and I meant no disrespect. They guys at Meniscus and the Loudspeaker community are lucky to have your tireless support. Maybe that is the relationship they have with most of the designers of their kits. You are much more prolific and generous than most. There are other s like Paul Carmondy, Curt Cambell, and Jim Holtz also been very generous and productive. It looks like PE has something else in mind here.
                      You were implying something, I just decided to clarify. By the way, I believe it is the same for the others you listed as it is for me.

                      Reading through Ginger 's replies, it is clear that PE is trying to show some generosity and flexibility with this. People just need to decide if this is a good fit for them or not. There's no doubt this is a good way to get projects for their flyers, which isn't a bad thing.
                      Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                      • #71
                        Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                        Originally posted by Ginger
                        2) Your work is yours. While on the team, those designs may not be submitted to a competitor without permission but then at the end of the team duration (one year), the finished projects are your property and you can do so as you wish with them.
                        I think the idea comes across but, like Wolf, I think it may lack some precision (not that I am a lawyer).

                        Without a contract stating something to the contrary the copyright for a design automatically lies with the designer (at least in the UK). PE would seem to want an exclusive license for one year to use the design for their purposes and in exchange will provide store credit to help create the design. Seems a reasonable deal. After one year PE presumably still wants a license to use the design for their purposes but it is no longer exclusive. The copyright always resides with the designer.

                        An alternative that the quote perhaps suggests is that the designer gives the copyright of the design to PE for a year and then PE will give it back to the designer after a year. PE would then presumably need a license to continue to use the design.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                          Originally posted by fdieck View Post
                          I wonder what the quid pro quo for the designers of the kits (which are even often proprietary) at "that other" speaker parts company is.
                          I'm not sure if you're speaking about DIY Sound Group or not. But I add in a little extra on virtually all of the designs and send the designers a check every couple months or so as the kits sell. Last year I approached PE to see if they were interested in carrying some of the kits the same way because sometimes it's hard for me to keep up with packaging or keep parts in stock. No doubt Parts Express could do a better job with that than I can, being that I buy the parts from them anyway. :D They thought it was a great idea and things should get moving soon.

                          I think the plan Ginger is talking about here might differ from that one a little bit because it focuses more on the project gallery and the speakers don't necessarily have to use all components from Parts Express. Should be interesting either way.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                            Originally posted by GingerRohlfs View Post
                            I'm going to try to answer your questions as best as possible, as we definitely want to get everything out on the table for this entire Design Team concept.

                            1) My understanding is that there will be some flexibility in the number of designs per year. Right now, the agreement has a guideline of every 90 days, but again our goal is to work with our team members and if we have someone who is working on an amazing project who needs more time, it's really just going to be a matter of communication. I would say the every 90 days is more of a guideline or loose suggestion. Guidelines are there just to protect Parts Express and the individual team member. Again, the guys I'm working with on this team project are very flexible and understand it can take a while to build a speaker project, so I say just make sure communication is consistent. That will speak more than just cranking out a project every 90 days that is not your best work, and only done to meet some sort of "deadline" which can be flexible. Hopefully that makes sense.
                            Thanks for the clarification. I know for me personally, there is no way I could crank out something like I did with the DIYRM-A every 90 days, I think I spent 60 days on the writeup. I tend to put a lot of detailed engineering into designs and that can only happen so fast. I also appreciate PE has to have some kind of guideline, otherwise the results won't be what you want. This whole thing sounds like it could be a lot of fun...and it would be interesting to see what people put together.

                            Scott
                            DIYRM-A Thread, a 60 page speaker design guide
                            Tumblr
                            Direct link to DIYRM-A/B Updated PDF

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                            • #74
                              Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                              Originally posted by ROTECH View Post
                              Only here can I imagine people ruining a wet dream with their personal agenda. Here's to looking a gift horse in the mouth.
                              +1

                              Hats off to PE for entertaining such an idea!
                              +1

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Announcing the Parts Express Speaker Design Team call

                                Originally posted by fdieck View Post
                                Yes Jeff you are on record about this before and I meant no disrespect. They guys at Meniscus and the Loudspeaker building community are lucky to have your tireless support. Maybe that is the relationship they have with most of the designers of their kits. You are much more prolific and generous than most. Why not some gratis designs with non proprietary crossovers for PE? There are others like Paul Carmody, Curt Campbell, and Jim Holtz also been very generous and productive. Maybe bragging rights are enough for people to do this gratis. It looks like PE have might something else in mind here. It will be interesting to see how this progresses.
                                Short of a great friendship and all the knowledge I've gleaned from them, I haven't received anything from Meniscus Audio for my Blues kits. To be honest I don't even know if or how well they sell. Having my name on a listed kit is more than enough for me, and without them I'd have never been able to do it anyhow. Those guys do what they do for the love of audio, and they're good at it. I'm lucky to have their tireless support, and I very much appreciate their friendship.
                                "The ability of any system to produce exceptional sound will be limited mainly by the capability of the speakers" Jim Salk
                                "Audio is surely a journey full of revelations as you go" JasonP

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