Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

OK, now that we're starting to secretly admit that these things are kinda neat, does anyone have pictures of the insides of them? I am DYING to take mine apart to see what's in there. But I'm not ready to void my warranty just yet. The internet just has these photos, which are only mildly helpful.



As you can see, the drivers are only like 1.25" across, and there are two PRs. I'm guessing that each driver gets its own PR, but if that's the case, I'm curious how they divided up the interior airspace. I also really want to measure the T/S parameters of the little drivers.

But I'd love to see the inside of any and all decent-sounding mini-speakers. If you guys have ever done it, or come across anything, feel free to post.

[skatz]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

When I was looking at the SRS-X5 I went to a few stores that had display models. Sony has their displays set up so that you can link your phone to the speakers (bluetooth...) and play your own music. I didn't really think the X5 sounded much (or any) better than the slightly smaller X33.

I actually ended up with the older SRS-X3 instead of an X33 though. Refurbished models were available, and still are, for $60. That was too good to pass up.

The site Paul linked, Oluv's Gadget's, has measurements of a lot of the newer and more popular speakers of this type. If you are planning on spending $150 or so, you might want to look at the JBL Charge 2, JBL FLip 3, Bose Soundlink Mini II, Denon Envaya Mini DSB100, too. These are all in the same ballpark as the Sony models and each has advantages/disadvantages.

Or check your local paper for brick and mortar deals on the X3. Local shops were clearing them out at $60 brand new. And they are still available Manufacturer Refurbished for $60 on eBay...

Well, my kids gave me a gift certificate on Amazon designated for outdoor sound, so I almost have to buy what they have available. I could add to it of course. I'll take a lood at those you mention, but I've never heard any of these and its hard to tell much from their descriptions. You mostly cannot get any idea of how large the drivers are for most of the entries.

[Face]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

As you can see, the drivers are only like 1.25" across, and there are two PRs. I'm guessing that each driver gets its own PR, but if that's the case, I'm curious how they divided up the interior airspace. I also really want to measure the T/S parameters of the little drivers.

In a product at this price point, I wouldn't be surprised if everything shared the same air space.

[ryanbouma]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Sure, EQ/DSP are good duct tape fixes, but that all goes out the window when you're using more than a single driver.

Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying in your blog or this post. Why is dsp a duct tape fix and why is it not useful in multi driver speakers? That makes no sense...

[DanP]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

But I'd love to see the inside of any and all decent-sounding mini-speakers. If you guys have ever done it, or come across anything, feel free to post.

The Logitech Z4 system has always been one of the best commercial 2.1 values that I've ever heard. The sub is about a 9" cube with what appears to be an 8"ish woofer. My system stopped working one day so I took it apart to find that the 8" driver was only a passive radiator. The box was divided in half with a 4" woofer AND a port in the divider. So the rear of the 4" was ported to the front half of the enclosure which shared airspace with the PR. I've never seen that alignment before and I assume it's meant to give the appearance of a larger woofer without paying for it, but it doesn't give up much in the way of sound quality or output, at least for the price.

Dan

[mattsk8]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Maybe I didn't understand what you were saying in your blog or this post. Why is dsp a duct tape fix and why is it not useful in multi driver speakers? That makes no sense...

My guess is he meant using DSP to fix issues in a loudspeaker. My next build is going to be a hybrid passive/active 3 way, in which case I don't think Paul's original statement would apply. And obviously you can't beat DSP in a HT system.

[Face]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

My guess is he meant using DSP to fix issues in a loudspeaker. My next build is going to be a hybrid passive/active 3 way, in which case I don't think Paul's original statement would apply. And obviously you can't beat DSP in a HT system.

Done right, there's nothing wrong with it in a 2 channel rig either. With DSP, my SEOS24/BMS coaxial measures flat with only a couple of passive components and a single amp needed. Otherwise, an additional amp and more complex passive network would be required. FYI, DSP is handled by J. River before D/A conversion.

[mattsk8]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Done right, there's nothing wrong with it in a 2 channel rig either. With DSP, my SEOS24/BMS coaxial measures flat with only a couple of passive components and a single amp needed. Otherwise, an additional amp and more complex passive network would be required. FYI, DSP is handled by J. River before D/A conversion.

Don't need to go far to convince me. I still wonder why a equalizer is faux pas these days.

[Face]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Don't need to go far to convince me. I still wonder why a equalizer is faux pas these days.

Because they're inferior to well implemented DSP and need to go the ways of the cassette deck. :D

[Sydney]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

...I still wonder why a equalizer is faux pas these days.

Perhaps poor implementation and operation, though in a Live Pro Sound context some would argue they are indispensable.
Who hasn't seen graphic EQ misused ( the "Risky Business" setting ).

Parametric EQ is a very useful tool.

[mattsk8]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Because they're inferior to well implemented DSP and need to go the ways of the cassette deck. :D

I guess formal semantics, but even then I'd say they go hand in hand.

[mattsk8]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Perhaps poor implementation and operation, though in a Live Pro Sound context some would argue they are indispensable.
Who hasn't seen graphic EQ misused ( the "Risky Business" setting ).
Parametric EQ is a very useful tool.

Exactly. Because... they work

[kbzx35]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

I admit it. I'm a proud Bose owner. I know I know... I own a bose soundlink mini. Does it sound great? nope not at all, but it sounds good enough and puts out enough volume for ultra portable duty. I like bigger boomboxes and currently building one but it's just so convenient and back pack friendly. Don't worry Paul, I still have the highest respect for you but I might have to put a sony emblem on my speedsters. lol

[mattsk8]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

I admit it. I'm a proud Bose owner.....

There are support groups available :p...



I have a pair of Bose 301 that I got from my grandpa, I'm not ashamed of it

[mattsk8]

Re: Some thoughts on DSP, and an embarrassing confession

Who hasn't seen graphic EQ misused ( the "Risky Business" setting ).

That was awesome . I'm sure that sounds... incredible