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1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

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  • 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

    After taking a look at a bunch of commercial speakers I have found most to be just square with no roundover but came across a set with an 1/8" roundover that I really loved the look of. I am looking to do just that on my tritrix tl's but just wanted to make sure I shouldn't be doing at least a 1/4. I'm not audiophile by any means.
    Also on some of these builds I see guys doing a really big roundover on the entire box and not just the baffle, is there a reason for that or just personal taste?

  • #2
    Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

    A small radius baffle round over will have little to no effect. It takes around an inch or more radius baffle round over to have a significant impact. Rounding the other edges is mainly a cosmetic consideration, although it also makes it easier to bend veneer over the corners.
    www.billfitzmaurice.com
    www.billfitzmaurice.info/forum

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    • #3
      Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

      It should inly have a cosmetic affect. I remember someone measured differet roundovers (cjd maybe?) and found no significant measureable change until 1" as Bill stated. I honestly dont even know if i could hear the difference if a build had all drivers flush mounted or surface mounted.

      Were these speakers painted? Paint doesnt like sharp edges it will bunch up or run on a sharp edge. I've done vinyl over a small radius and veneer over a 3/4" radius but i am going to spring for atleast a 1" or 1-1/4" roundover bit becuase it took a ridiculous amount of effort and finagalling to get it to wrap with paperbacked hickory. It could have been a disaster if i didnt have a second set of hands available.
      My Build Thread's
      Carrera's / Finalist TL's / Speedster TMM's / Speedster MTM Center / Overnight Sensation Surrounds

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      • #4
        Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

        Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
        A small radius baffle round over will have little to no effect. It takes around an inch or more radius baffle round over to have a significant impact. Rounding the other edges is mainly a cosmetic consideration, although it also makes it easier to bend veneer over the corners.
        The noticable difference to my ears seems to start around 1/2". There is a great baffle study in the LDC7 as well. It is noticable in terms of openness and imaging, but timbre measureable on axis or not, really is not largely affected until an inch like Bill said. There is nothing wrong if you want to do it to look good. I find better looking speakers to sound better than bad looking speakers. ;)
        .

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        • #5
          Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

          take a look at the frequency that corresponds to a .5 inch wave length.
          craigk

          " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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          • #6
            Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

            1/8" is too small to matter meaningfully acoustically. The 1" minimum is not really accurate, the best guideline is "biggest you can do". Bevels are almost as good. The roundover effective size varies based upon the angle of incidence- if you have a tall floorstanding 2 way, the path from the midwoofer to the edge closer to the floor will mean that the rounding effectively is much larger than if it encountered the same roundover at a right angle. I use 4" on my system, and one of my next larger-scale projects will use 6"- it's a pain but it's that important, IMO.

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            • #7
              Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

              Originally posted by craigk View Post
              take a look at the frequency that corresponds to a .5 inch wave length.
              Aw comeon' Craig! Diffraction occurs way before that, and you know that. It is a functuon of a mechanical obsticle at the edge of the cabinet, NOT a size relation to the size of the roundover vs. Frequency. And it starts at the baffle width lambda equivlant..... Hence diffraction/step compensation.
              .

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              • #8
                Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                Diffraction occurs when a wave encouters an obstical similar in size to the wavelength.
                craigk

                " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                • #9
                  Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                  Originally posted by billfitzmaurice View Post
                  A small radius baffle round over will have little to no effect. It takes around an inch or more radius baffle round over to have a significant impact. Rounding the other edges is mainly a cosmetic consideration, although it also makes it easier to bend veneer over the corners.
                  Dennis Murphy compared a 3/4 inch baffle edge radius to a sharp edge on two cabinets for his MBOW1 design, which uses the Hiquphon OW1 tweeter centered horizontally on an eight inch wide baffle, vertically the center located 3.19 down from the top edge.

                  The graphs he provided at this link show response on axis and 15 degrees off axis for both cabinets, four graphs total.

                  His particular design application showed considerable smoothing with the 3/4 inch edge radius.
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                  • #10
                    Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                    Not saying that it can't help, because it might in some cases. But I reallt think something else is going on with the measurements Dennis posted. Look at the lower freqs. Not even close to each other. There is no wsy a round over effected the bottom end like the changes you see in the graphs posted. Not sure what is going on but it is more than roundovers contribute.
                    craigk

                    " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                    • #11
                      Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                      Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                      Aw comeon' Craig! Diffraction occurs way before that, and you know that. It is a functuon of a mechanical obsticle at the edge of the cabinet,...
                      This is true. If you have an edge (discontinuity in the medium) and a wave, you don't need anything else for diffraction. The wave will curve around the edge. It's how I watch TV (we live in a valley).

                      Originally posted by craigk View Post
                      Diffraction occurs when a wave encouters an obstical (sic) similar in size to the wavelength.
                      Resonances are size related, but wave superposition is not. You can strengthen a diffraction issue by making all diffraction occur at the same frequency (see Zaph's surface mount tweeter test), but I'm not finding anything were diffraction, per se, resonates.

                      Have fun,
                      Frank

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                      • #12
                        Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                        Originally posted by fbov View Post
                        This is true. If you have an edge (discontinuity in the medium) and a wave, you don't need anything else for diffraction. The wave will curve around the edge. It's how I watch TV (we live in a valley).



                        Resonances are size related, but wave superposition is not. You can strengthen a diffraction issue by making all diffraction occur at the same frequency (see Zaph's surface mount tweeter test), but I'm not finding anything were diffraction, per se, resonates.

                        Have fun,
                        Frank
                        Not sure what resonance has to do with difraction ?
                        craigk

                        " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                        • #13
                          Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                          No, I see no relationship between them. Separate phenomena.

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                          • #14
                            Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                            Originally posted by craigk View Post
                            Diffraction occurs when a wave encouters an obstical similar in size to the wavelength.
                            Yes, it STARTS ad the wavelength is equal or longer than the baffle width, LESS diffraction occurs with a radius due to smoothing of the intefering corner. Zaphs tweter test shows it, the diffractuon study in the LDC shows it, heck you can just sim in a couple of different of jeff B's programs. Which I sugguest to the OP to do. However a visible change in a squiggly like does not gaurantee an audible "improvement" in sound.... Another arguement for another time.
                            .

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                            • #15
                              Re: 1/8" roundover on all of cabinet? Would I notice a difference

                              I agree with both of these statements. Especially the squiggly part.
                              craigk

                              " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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