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  • Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

    Good Afternoon:

    Does anyone have a recommendation for a ribbon that could be comfortably crossed to the PM180?

    It seems like the general consensus is that the PM180 is a great midrange, but it needs to be crossed around 2Khz to avoid the jagged FR in the upper frequencies. If that's the case, it would have to be a more robust ribbon. Perhaps it could be crossed at 2.5khz with a steeper slope to open it up to more options.

    As always, thanks for your thoughts!

    Joe

  • #2
    Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

    B&G Neo3PDR should work around 2kHz. Magnetostat, not a ribbon but sound almost as good. Read a rumour somewhere PE will start selling them again.
    "It is only Scrooge McDuck and others with a personality disorder who have money as their goal"

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    • #3
      Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

      Originally posted by jml View Post
      Good Afternoon:

      Does anyone have a recommendation for a ribbon that could be comfortably crossed to the PM180?

      It seems like the general consensus is that the PM180 is a great midrange, but it needs to be crossed around 2Khz to avoid the jagged FR in the upper frequencies. If that's the case, it would have to be a more robust ribbon. Perhaps it could be crossed at 2.5khz with a steeper slope to open it up to more options.

      As always, thanks for your thoughts!

      Joe
      We used the RAAL 70-20XR with the PM180 and crossed near 2KHz. The ViaWave is nearly as capable crossing that low. The Aurum Cantus AST2560 can cross at 2KHz but it is an AMT and not a ribbon.
      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
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      • #4
        Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

        The Aurum Cantus G2Si is well thought of by designers here at PE .
        donc

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        • #5
          Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

          Thanks for all of the recommendations so far! The RAAL is a little out of the price range, but the ViaWave certainly looks interesting - is Roman still selling them? if so, how much are they going for?

          The Aurum Cantus looks like it could be a good option too - and at a reasonable price.

          Cheers!

          Joe

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          • #6
            Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

            Originally posted by jml View Post
            but the ViaWave certainly looks interesting - is Roman still selling them? if so, how much are they going for?

            The Aurum Cantus looks like it could be a good option too - and at a reasonable price.

            Cheers!

            Joe
            I do have 2 pairs that are not spoken for.
            There's a bit of the trickery, working with ribbon tweeters. And that's not just Viawave.
            Ribbon designs will have chamber/foil resonance that usually falls between 1300hz and 2000hz. It's sort of like Seas Excel magnesium break up in it's effect. I think, because many people do not filter it out, ribbons in general have a reputation for tizzy sound. Never the less, then filtered properly, they sound clear and neutral. So, if you want to push a ribbon tweeter fairly low, I'd suggest a parallel notch around 1500hz (depending on the tweeter).
            http://www.diy-ny.com/

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            • #7
              Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

              JeffB speakers very highly of the PM180 and AC G2Si individually , whether or not they would work well together I don't know , maybe he will chime in on this .
              Like Pete was saying ,he and Ryan uses the PM180 with some very high end drivers including a RAAL ribbon tweeter .
              If these would work together you would have a very cost effective , high sensitivity, high end top end and would need a good woofer/woofers to match !
              donc

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              • #8
                Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                Originally posted by donc View Post
                JeffB speakers very highly of the PM180 and AC G2Si individually , whether or not they would work well together I don't know , maybe he will chime in on this .
                Like Pete was saying ,he and Ryan uses the PM180 with some very high end drivers including a RAAL ribbon tweeter .
                If these would work together you would have a very cost effective , high sensitivity, high end top end and would need a good woofer/woofers to match !
                donc
                Thanks for your thoughts, Don. It looks like the AC or ViaWave could both be good options. Regarding the woofers to match, it seems like one of the big hurdles would be efficiency, so I was thinking of crossing the PM180 to a powered woofer section, so that I could equalize the output to the top end. It wouldn't be cheap, but my thought was to use 2 of the Rythmik Audio FM8s as the bass bins. The paper cones and servo control should hopefully match the detail of the mid and tweet. You could probably do the same for much cheaper with the RSS210HF, but I am guessing it would give up some detail in the lower notes.



                Best regards,

                Joe

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                • #9
                  Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                  The 12" woofer at diysoundgroup.com may be a good choice !? The twelves are also used in their bass bins and the crossover used for the Continuums woofer modules may be able to be used with their bass bins with the PM180 /G2Si combo !?
                  donc

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                  • #10
                    Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                    I don't find the detail in the RSS210HF-4 to be lacking, but the sensitivity certainly won't match even with a pair. You could use the RSS210HO-8 in a parallel pair (just about 2 cubes) placed closer to the floor to compensate for BSC, and come out around 89-ish. OR- use 4 of the HF-4 units in about 4ft^3, and come out at 88-ish.

                    Thing is- it would still cost less than the Rhythmic combo would and you'd get 8 woofers. Add a plate amp and still less depending on the amplifier.

                    Later,
                    Wolf
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                    • #11
                      Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                      or use AE woofers, still cheaper than Rythmic combo, high sensitivity and should be very nice. I hear the wait time is not too bad nowadays. You can use anywhere from the 10" to the 15".

                      another option would be 2xSB29NRX close to the floor and around 3-4 db BSC would be 90-91 db as each is 88db. This is a very good driver and keeps up with the best mids, see Matt's build with the scan rev mid and the TL tweet. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...hlight=SB29NRX
                      The SB34NRX is 90DB, and two of them will be 96db minus BSC, but the box size would be humongous!

                      the Scanspeak Discovery 26W/8534G is 8 ohm and 89 db, double up for 95db minus BSC. The 4 ohm version of this woofer is 90.5

                      there is also the usher 10", at 88db for 8 ohms, another very good woofer

                      These are all traditional woofers, you can also go with any of the bigger subs and go active to match the output.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                        If you choose to go with AE , their SBP series woofers are for smaller sealed cabinets , you could side fire the woofers in cabinets with narrow foot prints for WAF !
                        donc

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                        • #13
                          Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                          I like the idea of 8 of the HFs!, but I think that would push the WAF-meter into the red. I would probably just go with 1 or 2 of the HFs and power it with a plate amp, so that I could accommodate the difference in efficiency by adjusting the amplifier gain.

                          I looked at the AE drivers previously, but I would like to keep the front baffle at a max width of 10-11", so I think a 10" driver is probably the max. Although, as Don pointed out, I suppose the AE SBP12 could be used side firing and still maintain this baffle width.

                          Ignoring the price, it seems like the group doesn't see a lot of performance value in the Rythmik setup. I haven't heard any of the Rythmik subs before, but I've owned 2 commercial subs with servo control (ML and Velodyne), and I found them to be markedly more controlled than comparably priced non-servo designs. I have not heard any of the Dayton HF subs, so perhaps I'm incorrect in my thinking that the SQ of the Rythmik setup would be superior.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                            If I went with a passive woofer section, how about 2X Tymphany NE225W-08? Assuming the specs are right, it would get 93.5db/w and it looks like the ported cabinet volume wouldn't be too bad.

                            Best regards,

                            Joe

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                            • #15
                              Re: Crossing the PM180 to a ribbon tweeter

                              I own a Rhythmik F12SE and it is a really nice sub. I can't say that it is leaps and bounds better than the Dayton RSS series though. It did come in a nice finished cabinet with an amp that has some EQ controls, so for the what I remember to be around $750 I paid for it, it was a great deal. I've used the RSS265 before, and although I didn't do a direct head-to-head comparison, it is a very good driver. I wouldn't hesitate to us that line again.
                              -Kerry

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